scout bully

[Lynda J]

Kevin had been trying to deal with it. One of the boys told him he wanted his lunch money. Kevin told him that he didn't bring lunch money because it went into his school account. Stopped that. But the problem was that the coach in the PE class where the rubber band problem wouldn't do anything about these two boys. One of them actually held another boy in my troop down and choked him until his lips turned blue. Two other kids pulled him off of Jacob. The coach's response was to tell Jacob "don't retaliate". That was the day before Kevin got the whelp.

 

Texas is in the process of passing a law called

The Bulley protection act. It makes schools responsible. They can't simply ignore it any more.

They have to deal with the bulley.

Also found out that over Spring Break one of the boys (12) ended up in jail for knocking a kid off his bike and taking it. He hasn't been in school all week.

[EagleScout316]

Well, I'd immediately suggest enrolling Kevin in some sort of martial arts; don't forget, even folkstyle (high school) wrestling is a martial art. Of course, I was listening to some songs recently, and had an idea for you. Suggest to Kevin about playing on a drumline; back in the day, we carried 30-50 lb. drums while marching on a field for an extended length of time. It takes a lot of muscle to lift up those drums, and walk with them attached to you; we drummers are wiry. I only thought this would be a good idea because Texas is renkowned for its drumlines - there's kids in the 8th grade that are as good if not better than seniors in highschools out here.

 

On a personal note, I'd try to talk to the parents of the bullies, and see if the kids can't work out their differences. Of course, with a kid like that 12 year old that's in jail, I can't expect too much from his parents. And what I'd personally do at that point would probably be to suggest a wrestling/boxing match between the two kids, then go home and teach my kid every trick I knew to put the other kid in his place. But hey, that really isn't the way to handle a situation, and a tad bit off of ethical. Why not invite the kid to a camping trip; brats don't survive long in the wilderness .

-ES 3:16

[FScouter]

... see if the kids can't work out their differences.

 

And what I'd personally do at that point would probably be to suggest a wrestling/boxing match between the two kids...

 

You have obviously never been the object of a bully. The bully and the target have no differences to work out. This is not an argument between two kids. The last thing the target wants is duke it out with his tormentor. He wants to be LEFT ALONE.

[EagleScout316]

"You have obviously never been the object of a bully."

Ya know, as an Eagle Scout I try not to use rash decisions, but then there's the rest of the world, cloaked in blindness, that just won't quit picking on my habits. So here it is, in the flesh. I was about 13 and a half in the 8th grade, and kids had been picking on me since the 7th. I'd get comments ranging from how one kid said he'd had sex with my mother, another saying that there might be a connection between my large forearms and masturbation, and then just a whole bunch of 'let's push Dave into the lockers.' There was one point where I'd just had enough; I threatened each and every one of those punks, and glory and shame came afterword. For awhile, I was revered; then Columbine happened, and the sky began to fall. Everyone said that I was so terrible, that I deserved to be sent to military school. And they had completely forgot about all the things they had done to me. And surprisingly, I was able to talk with one of the guys that had picked on me, and we became really good friends, working out our differences afterall; he had thought I'd done something to him, which I hadn't. So there's your sign.

 

And what I'd personally do at that point would probably be to suggest a wrestling/boxing match between the two kids...

This is really toned down as to what I'd actually do. I'd really go awol on the parent, letting them know that if the kid didn't shape up, I'd be back for the parent. But that's me being overprotective and full of rage, so the first statement was my sense of poise and etiquette, my attempt to be polite and stern at the same time. You say that kids want to be alone after being victimized. I did for awhile; I didn't want to be around any of them. But then my grandpa talked to me about taking a stand for what was an unalienable right; he taught me to fight back, physically or mentally (though he did seem to emphasize the physical aspect). The wretched filth that I now realized was beneath me in the matters of mental strength, for fear I would be contaminated by such a weakness, by the genuine thing that defines humanity: fear. Now I'm on a plane where only a few drift today, and many had hundreds of years ago; I am not attached to my life, but I don't reject life itself by seeking solitude. If you look into basic psychology, it's not healthy to want to be alone. You say that a kid doesn't want to confront his tormentors, to duke it out with them. I say this, on the basis of how I've grown up, that there is nothing I would like more than to go 15 rounds with many of the people in my life that have hazed me and gotten away with it (Deuteronomy 32:41). You have the nerve to say that I've never been the object of a bully, solely based on my interpretation of the most civilized and most rewarding way is to handle something. I can only guess that you yourself have been victimized; how recent it was for you, I'm unable to summise. I can only say that we all grow up differently, and we all feel different things; and of course, we all deal with our problems in different ways. The only good thing I can offer you is my condolences, that you were victimized, too.

-ES 3:16

[EagleScout316]

Well, to get off of a harsh post, this is for Lynda J, specifically, for Kevin. I was reading this month's issue of Black Belt magazine, and I saw this ad for how a kid has been teaching other kids how to be bully-proof. This 12 year old, Patrick McCoy, is a 2nd degree black belt who takes the most common attacks by bullies, and devises nonaggressive responses. The premise is that if the kids fight each other, they'll both get in trouble; in this case, the b ully gets in trouble, and the other person is just getting away. The video, The Bully Factor, is intended for defending yourself, not attacking the bully. It's about $19.95, and sounds really good for someone like Kevin to learn from, sensing its passive aggressive techniques; for more information, go to http://kidsbestdefense.com

Hope this helps,

-ES 3:16

[Scoutndad]

Yikes...what a forum...martial arts...biblical references...Columbine

 

This should have stopped after Bob Whites original reply.

 

No amount of martial arts or parental involvement (or lack thereof) is going to resolve a situation that has manifested for so long.

 

As a one time wimp, then a bully(over corrected), if nothing more, take the appropriate measures to resolve the immediate situation and take your child out of harms way first THEN work on, as a family (and may I suggest professional counseling) the resolution of the bully.

 

As many contributors pointed out, there are many tough "no tolerance" laws that parents and children might be able to use in these situations, but a reference to physical retribution regardless of combat style should be used constructively as a self-esteem and self-discipline tool and not as an answer.

 

Experience has taught - conflict is inevitable, fighting is a choice

[EagleScout316]

That video I was talking about doesn't deal with physical retribution; it teaches kids how to get out of situations and how to contact the proper authorities on their own.

 

I've tried professional counseling; martial arts definitely works better for the brain (mine, atleast).

 

And yes, a warrior can choose pacifism; however, everyone else is condemned to it.

[Scoutndad]

Then to reinforce the position I stated, work together as a family and if necessary, incorporate the proper tools which would include any books, videos or counseling necessary to establish the best behavior for the child.

 

Bullys are created..

Warriors are trained..

Establishing the correct behavior pattern is essential to defining the difference through any medium that is effective.

[EagleScout316]

When speaking on establishing the best behavior for the child, are you referring to the bully, or the victim?

 

And bullies might have been created, but as a victim of bullies, I know I never did anything to instigate them. In the words of Chris Rock, whatever happened to just plain crazy?

 

On a completely off-the-topic sort of thing, Warriors might be trained, but according to recent studies, aggressive males (not exactly warriors) can be tracked down based on the difference in length between their forefinger and ring finger. Just thought this bit of news was pretty interesting.

[Scoutndad]

now i think ES is on to something with the finger thing...lol

 

by the way, 12 years of combined training in 4 styles has also been a positive influence in my life - only one fight and I deserved every stitch that I got!

 

but it all gets put into perspective when you are the parent and your child is in spiders position - a very difficult time indeed...

[EagleScout316]

Well, according to the study, I'm an aggressive person, and hey, I am.

 

This is weird; 12 years experience, strong in UTF Tae Kwon Do, Shorin Ryu Okinawan Karate, Muay Thai Kick Boxing, and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu (Under Brad Peplow, beneath Jack McVicker). Other various arts include Chin Na, folkstyle wrestling, Ba Gua, Tai Chi, Capoeira, and most recently, I've been doing XMA, but that last one's not really a martial art.

 

Even spiders can hurt men. My friend Jimmy, a.k.a. Spider, won the N.A.G.A. championships in 2003. I have an interesting story about such a perspective. My grandfather was picked on as a little kid; one day, one of his older brothers ccaught a bully beating him up. His older brother let the bully finish with my grandfather, and then he hurt that bully so bad, well, I don't know; my grandfather always trails off into the moral lesson he learned about how to not put himself into any position where he might have to fight ever again. Of course, he grew up in the Great Depression, so of course, it was a whole different ball game. Now, I really don't have a say, since I have yeat to bear children, but I will tell you this. About three years ago, I had the privelege of watching over three young boys for a whole summer (9, 11, and 13). The oldest, Bobby, was at one point picked on by some other kid; he didn't even look at me for help, just stood his ground. He later admitted to me that he wanted to hit the kid (who said some pretty messed up stuff), but was taught only to defend himself, and not attack others no matter what. I think that's the closest I've come to legitametly feeling for a kid like I would a son, or a brother. Now, I'll admit, I wanted to help, but how's it look if you have an 18 year old take on someone who's got to face these guys everyday. If I had helped him out, it would have belittled his image. My opinion is, let your kid take care of the problem; it really is the most rewarding thing. And if he gets knocked around, help him learn how to take control in the future. Of course, this is a different view - doesn't make it correct, but it doesn't make it wrong, neither.

-ES 3:16

[spider]

Well, its been a little over a year since I asked for your advice, thought you should have an update.

Both of my sons and I finally had enough and have switched troops.

We have been in the new troop since October and wish we had made the switch earlier. This last January at the district Klondike, there was an incident with the old troop members and my son and his new troop patrol mates. The old guys deliberately ran my sons patrol over with their sled and also brandished a hatchet at the members of his patrol. My son's SM had a chat with the new SM of the previous troop and the SM of the previous troop decided it would be best if the boys just stayed away from each other. (As if we hadn't already tried that!) My son's SM wasn't exactly satisfied with that decision so the incident was reported to the district events committee. We'll see what happens next weekend at the district merit badge campout. As for school, they have admitted that there is only so much they can do and have encouraged us to go to the police and file charges whenever anything occurs at school. We did go to the police but did not file charges at this time but the Chief agreed to talk to the offenders and let them know that the next incident of any type, from anyone, will result in a complaint being filed. The Chief was a victim of a bully when he was young. He thinks that might be what led him into law enforcement. Thanks for all of the advice.

YIS