Bewitched, Bemused & Bewildered.

[evmori]

But you posted

"The Advancement Policies require that the scout were as complete a uniform as he can when at a BOR."

 

How can something be required for a BOR if it isn't required for membership?

 

I did find what you posted under BOR's for ranks other than Eagle. I couldn't find anything regarding a Scout's uniform under Eagle BOR's.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10(This message has been edited by evmori)

[dan]

I really think that this rule was put in for the less forunate scouts, there are scouts out there that cannot afford or have access to a uniform.

Which is why I think the BSA keeps the wording vauge.

Ed

Would you deny a Scout eagle because of this?

Now remember not all leaders may have the resources to obtain used uniforms.

 

(This message has been edited by dan)

[evmori]

dan,

No.

[dan]

Evmori

If the BSA put in the rule that uniforms are required, it could hurt people who could not afford them. Which I why I think the uniform is not required.

 

General statement not aimed at Evmori!

Gee, maybe someday will learn how to communicate on this forum!

I see it as out jobs as leaders to get the scouts in uniforms using positive methods, and have fun doing it!

How to get your unit in uniforms? Show the PLC the SM handbook where it says all leaders should set a good example and wear the complete and correct unform, than ask them who the leaders are in the troop. This could be a very powerful training tool.

I would love to see every unit in full uniform, but with units making up rules as they go and not understanding the program and rules, that is not going to happen.

 

[Bob White]

Ed I think you are misunderstanding my post.

 

Your comment was "I am sure some districts & councils require the Eagle candidate to be in full uniform for his BOR."

 

My point, is that to do so would be a violation of BSA advancement policies. Since the Handbook does not require a full uniform then the District or Council cannot require one. The scout is only required to wear as correct and complete a uniform as he can.

 

You wanted to know if I expected to see a candidate in full uniform for an Eagle Borad.

 

All I expect is to see a boy who has completed the eagle requirements and can show that he uses the values of scouting in his everyday life.

 

I enjoy seeing a full, correct uniform, but I do not "expect" to see it.

 

Bob White

[evmori]

So if an Eagle candidate shows up for his Eagle BOR in cutoff shorts & a t-shirt that's OK?

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White]

I don't know yet, I haven't had a chance to talk to the scout. I will not evaluate the scout until I talk to him.

 

Would you?

 

Bob White

[Fat Old Guy]

"So if an Eagle candidate shows up for his Eagle BOR in cutoff shorts & a t-shirt that's OK?"

 

Depends on the situation. If the Scout is from a "holler" in Kentucky and cut-offs and a t-shirt are his Sunday best, that would be fine.

 

In my area, we have a good uniform bank and few really poor so no.

 

If I sat on an Eagle Board and a Scout showed up without a uniform, I'd ask why he wasn't wearing a uniform.

[evmori]

I'm not disagreeing with either Bob or Fat Old Guy. So if a Scout shows up for a BOR other than Eagle & has no uniform, that's OK? Remember what the Advancement procedures state!

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[fotoscout]

Uniforms....Did I hear something about uniforms? Nevermind.

[EagleInKY]

I'm going to turn the discussion back to Eamonn's original question. I am on the fence when it comes to troop rules. We have them, but I see the pros and cons of each approach. Let me share why. I'll explain using two troops in our area.

 

Troop A - The Mega-Troop. This troop has all the resources, volunteers and space money can buy. They have an incredible program, and turn out an impressive number of Eagles. But, it is hard to say that it is boy-run. It appears that the boys are just going through the steps of a clearly laid out plan. If a boy sticks with their program, he will likely make to Eagle following the prescribed schedule.

 

The problem with Troop A is that it takes much of the leadership away from the boys. I believe the creativity required in developing and leading their own program is one of the most valueable aspects of the program.

 

Troop A, of course, is a troop that has an impressive set of rules and procedures to document everything that happens in the troop.

 

Troop B - the boy-led to the extreme troop. In this troop the boys make all of the decisions. The adults are only there to make sure that the boys don't kill each other (and of course, transportation) When a boy does something wrong, the normal excuse is "boys will be boys". For example, when we took our Webelos to visit a troop meeting, a 13-yr old was picking on one of the Webelos. The troop leaders were letting it happen. Eventually, I stepped in, to prevent it from going over the edge. Another situation I know of involved a Webelos who crossed over into the troop. This Scout is a little "different". He has some learning disabilities, and spent much of his life in foster homes. The Boy Scouts took a vote, and decided they did not want this boy in their troop. When the SM was asked, he backed up his boys, saying it was a boy-led troop, so it was up to them.

 

Obviously, Troop B had no sort of manual whatsoever.

 

My point is that there is a happy-medium in everything we do. Manuals are useful in defining what acceptible behavior is. We'd love to just live by the Scout Oath & Law, but it's not that easy. For example, "A Scout is Friendly" would preclude a Scout from getting in a fight. So, what happens when one of your boys gets in a fight? Is he kicked out because he violated a point in the Scout Law? Or, do you have rules that state what is expected of your boys and your parents?

 

We use our handbook as an introduction to the troop. We meet with parents during the Webelos open house (or in a SM conference for those coming in at a different time). At this time we walk through the handbook. After that, it's seldom referenced again. It serves as a useful tool to set expectations with the parents. After that, it's more about good judgement and trying to live by the Scout Oath and Law.

[buffalo2]

Thank you Eagle - the kids were starting to get restless.

Remember folks that those rules cut both ways and the simpler

that we can keep things the happier we probably all are in the long run. Kneejerk reactions and the endless creation of rules and regulations often serve only a few

[Bob White]

Boy lead does not mean adult leaders abdicate responsibility.

 

Troop A, and Troop B have the identical problem and it has nothing to do with whether or not they have troop rules. he problem is that neither is following the scouting program, methods or policies.

 

The BSA program is not based on Eagle counts, nor does it allow youth to determine membership, and there are specific steps in the BSa on dealing with violence, and training for adults on when to step in. All these things are currently covered in BSA program leader handbooks, Scout leader training and in the Guide to safe scouting.

 

It's not that the units you described need more or fewer rules, what they ned is to follow the scouting program. No unit manufactured reules will make them better at that. The only thing that will help is a committment to learn and use the scouting program.

 

Bob White