Todays Kids

[packsaddle]

Laurie, Regarding your youth at 40+...don't kid yourself. Sorry, I couldn't resist. Yeah, it's a great "quote". I keep the Plato version on the wall in my office to befuddle students when they come to challenge me about one thing or another. I use it to measure their sense of humor. The few who ask about it usually get it. The youth I work with in- and out-of-scouts are better than ever in my judgement and getting better still. They make me optimistic about the future.

 

Bob White, out of curiosity, just what kind of, ahem, corrective actions are you suggesting? Would you care to elaborate on the transgressions? Or h'mmm...maybe I shouldn't want to know.

[OldGreyEagle]

SM406,

 

I know what you mean, I have recounted this before but it fits here. On a campout an older scout was being mildly berated for his appearance (no uniform was required for this time period) the scout had on baggy cargo pants and a huge hockey type sweater, the pants were of course 3 inches or so below his waist with boxers on display. The ASM doign the berating was talking about how silly it looked and the scout said he wore his clothes like that because then " the ladies would know he was stylin'". I then broke into the conversation and asked if truly the reason he looked like that was to attract girls, and I then shocked the ASM by saying, "Ok, I'm in" The previously berating ASM wanted to know why I approved of the style of dress, I told him I didnt approve of the style, but as Mrs GreyEagle has pictures of me in a permanent, 3 inch stacked heels, elephant bells. polyester disco shirt, leisure suits featuring colors that would qualify as sufficent coloring for hunters in 9 states, a black cape trimmed in red satin, a white silk formal "puffy shirt" with a velour bow tie that must have been 6 inches wide, ( not all the same time you understand) I really try not to mock youth fashions.

 

At least both scout and ASM laughed, I was intrumental in giving them common ground to share, my fashion sins.

[Bob White]

Packsadlle,

As with the scouts, It would be preferably with adults to send them back to their parents for retraining.

 

BW

[Laurie]

Pack, now you sound like my kids--lol! And, just for the record, I am not 40+, I only just turned 40. Guess I set myself up for that, but still...tread cautiously where a woman's age is concerned

 

I should clarify: I think kids are great too. However, I've heard repeatedly (in school, in church, in our family, etc) that we "can't tell kids what to do", "can't expect them to do this or that", "have to let them do their own thing". But I disagree. We must set their boundaries for them, and then let them test the waters. Then broaden the boundaries. Bit by bit. We can expect certain behaviours, and if we don't, we won't see it--usually. So, the kids get cheated--that's my thought.

 

Interesting situation with a boy yesterday, a really tough one. We were having a carwash. He got mouthy, and I was standing next to him, and I told him quietly but firmly that he is a Cub Scout and that he will do his best to be polite and watch his mouth. (Did not ask him to--simply stated he would.) He did, for about 5 minutes. Then he started with something else, really giving another boy a rough time about how he was doing his carwashing. I told him, quietly and firmly that he will do his best to control himself and then said, ya know, how about letting the leaders be the leaders? He said "huh" as though that had never occured to him. He became offensive, calling the boys old ladies, but looking at me (watch it Pack--lol--he thinks like you on this one ), and tacked on, "but no offense". I again answered him, telling him that no offense would be taken if offensive remarks weren't made. I then took him aside for a bit, telling him he was to be respectful of all around him, that he was to watch his mouth, and that he was to settle down. He just kind of sighed, but he did control himself. For awhile...and on it goes...

 

My point: this boy needed to hear what was expected of him. I know he is used to getting his own way, but his own way was a poor reflection on the other Cubs, and it was offensive. Is he a good kid? It's awfully hard for any of us to think that, but I do believe that any child, with guidance and expectations, will do great. They just need a chance to learn that they can.

[Bob White]

Hi Laurie,

Please allow me a different point of view. The reson that your directive to the scout only lasted five minutes was that for him to behave was a choice you made and not a choice he made. Until the scout accepts the proper behaviour as one he chooses to do, your effect on him will only be temporary at best.

 

A more scout-like method would have been to talk with the scout to see what he understood his promise to "help other people at "all" times meant to him and if he thought his treatment of others was in keeping with the promise he made to himself and others. Than ask him what a more scoutlike behaviour would be. If the scout is unable to understand what scout-like behaviour is then you need to involve his parents. Until the scout chooses to behave, no amount of "telling" will have an effect.

 

Bob White

[packsaddle]

Why Laurie, I detect a finely-honed sense of humor...the kind that comes with, dare I say it, maturity.

 

OK, I give up. How do all of you get those smiley faces into these messages?

[dan]

I read this and thought Bob White has mixed up Boy Scouts and Cub Scouts. (must be from that vacation he took, he probably needs a vacation from that vacation) I went to the BSA web site, looked under Cub Scouts and what is the first thing I see? The Boy Scout Oath and Law!

Ok, I thought Cub Scouts is part of Boy Scouts. But they do not learn the Oath until they are in Webelos. So I have to ask, would you give the same advice if this is a bear or wolf scout?

and welcome back!

[Bob White]

Absolutely! Cubs promise to "help other people". I do not see how rudeness fulfills that obligation. Telling someone what to do only works for the moment. Until a person, regardless of age, has the opportunity to internalize a decision it will never last. Choice must be personal to have a personal effect.

 

Bob White

[evmori]

Bob,

And from another point of view maybe this kid just doesn't listen! It happens no matter what you do! I do agree that your way is usually better but there are no guarantees either way.

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[OldGreyEagle]

and here I thought Bob was pointing out how the "Directing" style of Leadership is truly useful only on safety related issues.

[Bob White]

Don't expect anyone to listen just because you talk at them Ed.

 

There is a terrific book called "How to Talk So Kids Will Listen, and Listen So Kids Will Talk."

It is not about their not listening. It is about our communication skills as adults. While there are no guarantees, there are methods that make communicating more effective. Before we give up on the kids let's do our part to do the best we can with the toos we know exist.

 

Telling is rarely leading and it rarely has lasting effects. Scouting teaches 4 styles of leadership. Many adults seem to only use one.

 

Bob White

[evmori]

Agreed it is about our communicating skills as adults and IT IS about their not listening. If they don't listen, you can use all the techniques you want from all the books you can read & you will get nowhere! And you won't have to use the dreaded telling technique at all!

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[OldGreyEagle]

So Ed, are you saying that there are some kids who just can't be reached? Especially at Cub Scout age?

[Laurie]

Bob, I happen to be in complete agreement with you. My goal (and my joy!) come from working alongside a boy and seeing him learn in whatever he does. I have typed and retyped a response, but all sound defensive. Bottom line is that you are right, I should have done better, but I didn't know how and failed (though it seemed I did ok at the time) with this particular boy.

 

Pack--yeah, I'm told I can be funny at times, even old as I am. (funny aside here: I met a friend from high school that I hadn't seen for 20 years and he said "you look good, very mature"...then hastened to add "but I DO NOT mean old!") As for those smilies and winks, it's easy. A smile is : with a ) directly following it. A wink is : with a ; directly following it. Have fun (This message has been edited by Laurie)

[Bob White]

Don't beat yourself up Laurie, we all make mistakes. The differing element is our willingness to learn and grow rather than trod the same paths repeatedly and expecting to find ourselves arriving at a new location.

 

Get the book I mentioned, and visit our discussion on the 4 styles of leadership. Also check out attending Wood Badge or refreshing the yourself on the styles of leadership with your WB counselor (Troop Guide).

 

There are times when "directing" can be effective. This just wasn't the appropriate time.

 

Bob White