Scout Meds

[Laurie]

BSA470 said: " Anyone have ideas on how to get parents to realize we need to kno since the adults are responsible and if they ever get hurt they could die because of a medicine complication. Ultimaetly it is a betrayal when parents lie to those taking care of their child."

 

I'm not sure you can do that other than to let them know the reason for asking the questions in the first place. Our Pack has not collected health histories (even during registration), and when I came on board, I thought we needed to be more careful in our record keeping. However, in planning a camping trip for the Pack, I ran across some issues. One family has a member attending who takes cancer drugs; they don't want that known. That's an example. The question asked of me is "why". I tell any adult to fill out the form with the info they are comfortable providing BUT to be aware that this could create problems. For instance, an incomplete medical form could mean turning a child/leader away from camp. If the adult is signing the form for themselves or their child, isn't it their right to provide the info they feel is appropriate?

 

My questions, after reading all of this, is this:

 

1. How do we as leaders encourage the filling out of medical histories?

AND...

2. Keep these records safely from prying eyes?

AND...

3. As leaders, get the info we do need (such as food allergy on a picnic) but not intrude into info we don't need (I don't need to know that a leader is on birth control pills for example).

 

Also, do the kids really get to keep their own non-emergency meds with them? I'd be afraid of other kids getting into it. At the same time, I honestly don't want to dose it out either, nor do I believe I should.

 

Since I am collecting these forms from adult leaders, parents going to camp, and youth alike right now, I appreciate your help.

[Fat Old Guy]

I've never understood why people get so paranoid about their medical histories. I have high cholesterol, high blood pressure and I'm nearsighted. Big deal. My wife had cancer. So what?

 

Stupid people lie on medical history forms. It is especially stupid to lie about conditions that could be life threatening.

 

If I don't put down that I take Lipitor, it isn't likely to create any major problems in my life. However, as others have pointed out, if you hide a condition like asthma, allergies, or even ADD, you may be opening a big can of worms.

 

We may not have a legal right to know but we do have a need to know and if a parent doesn't want to disclose information, perhaps the child shouldn't go on outings. We need to know anything that may put a child's health at risk or even when skipped meds will cause a gross behavioral change as shown in the story about the kid with depression.

Having an idea about severe allergies can be important as well.

 

Insist on accurate medical histories. Whoever is leading the expedition and whoever is responsible for first aid should review them so they are familiar with conditions that could become critical if medication is missed or treatment is delayed.

 

The committee chair doesn't need to see the records and neither does the treasurer. Everyone who does have access should simply use common sense when dealing with the records.

 

 

[saltheart]

FOG,

 

Our docs are very nice, thank you very much. We'll keep them.

 

But a fact of life that many seem to miss, Lord knows how, is that the society in which we live today is, if nothing else, litigious. And doctors, the good and the bad, have to protect themselves in as much as they can. Hence, most need to talk directly to someone who has legal charge over a minor prior to administering many forms of aid. It's a CYA thing.

 

Same with the permission forms, for the most part. If nothing else, the parents signature and medical information provides a level of comfort for volunteer leaders. Again, it's a CYA thing. The original intent of the permission form, at least when I was a child just after dirt was created, was that Mom & Dad basically handed over the reigns while I was away at camp. But back then, no one questioned. Few if any litigated. Perhaps there was a level of trust then that doesn't exist today. Perhaps many things went unspoken that today would be front page news. Who knows? Who cares? Today we live in a society where the first order of business for many when they awake each day is making certain the rear end is covered...just in case.

 

Sad fact of life....

[BSA470Firstaider]

Well to answer how to keep some information private and still be aware of whats going on I suggest making a card on cardstock or something heavy and ahve all of the important info on it like allergies, meds, emergency contacts, etc... and then leave the medicals inside of a manilla envolope until they are needed say in an emergency.

 

-Jeff

 

[acco40]

FOG, you never understood why some people get paranoid about revealing their medical histories? Have you ever witnessed what can happen to HIV individuals? People who are being treated for mental disorders? Job discrimination for people with many types of pre-existing conditions? Pregnancies and abortion histories? Birth control medications? I can go on and on. Granted, some of these circumstances carry a stigma to some and by hiding it or feeling ashamed, the stigma grows. But for goodness sakes, have some empathy for those in that position. Our troop has enough difficulty keepeing OA election results private, much less medical concerns. Every parent and scout makes the trade-off between their perceived "risk" in sharing medical information to the risk of not having that medical knowledge known. That is their decision, not mine.(This message has been edited by acco40)

[Laurie]

Jeff--thank you for that idea. That will work out just fine for us, and it addresses what concerned some people. Noone minds giving me the info; they are more concerned with where it goes after that. So, I can easily check for signatures and dates, then put the forms in the envelope and seal it until/unless needed. Cards w/allergy info: I'll tuck them into the first aid box so they'll be handy. Until recently our pack didn't have a first aid box, but that's been taken care of. Now, it's moving on to the paper work for me while leaving the leaders to have fun with the boys

[Fat Old Guy]

"FOG, you never understood why some people get paranoid about revealing their medical histories?"

 

Yep. I keep what I know about others to myself but I don't understand the fears of other people. As Popeye said, "I yam what I yam", my diseases are part of what makes me ME.

 

As for the HIV positive, they should be put on a reservation in Utah so they can't infrect anyone else (standing by for the flames).

 

 

[BSA470Firstaider]

What in hell is wrong with you? Pardon the vulgarity but how can you say that all HIV positive patients should be put on an island? How do you know how they got it? Are you saying that a Paramedic that responds to a scene nicks her glove and develops HIV after serving his/her community should be banished? I have a lot of trouble understanding that. I have in my years dealth with HIV positive pts. and i'm sure i've dealt with some who were and never admitted it. This irks me that someone could say that and not regret it, but o well I just hope that someone dosen't not save anothers life because they are worried about the aids virus. And for the record do you even know about aids or are you just ignorant.

 

READERS: Please do not take offense to this. I am not saying that aids is something you shouldn't worry about, but to say something in the way in which it was said in a post if wrong.

 

PM me, or reply I'm curious to hear others comments.

 

-Jeff

[Fat Old Guy]

Where did I say "island"? I said reservation. This is one of those situations where the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. You have a bunch of people walking around with one of the most deadly diseases known to man and there is no cure in sight. Far too many of these people engage in sex, bleed on people, etc.. You might as well give everyone a fragile glass capsule of plutonium.

 

I know that isolation will never occur in this country but it would contain the disease.

 

 

[rydive]

Wow, this is a total train wreck. I read this discussion from beginning to end and it some how ended up with fat boy deciding to place all HIV positive people in the world on a reservation. Sorry bud, but even if that was an attempt at a joke there is still no place for it here (it obviously wasn't because you came back and defended it).

 

On the topic of medical information being handed out to anyone I disagree. I would have no problem with the information being given to a responsible troop leader or camp nurse, but there is seldom a time when the information would be prudent in emergency care. No matter what state youre in BLS will not be administering any drug if they are under 18. An EMT-Basic can only give epinephrine and nebulizer treatments...so they won't be giving drugs that have a high risk of conflicting with other medications. EMT-Intermediates and EMT-Paramedics have a broader spectrum of drugs they can administer, but most are limited to cardiac drugs like atropine and dopamine. My point is there aren't that many drugs with a high potential of conflicting with other meds that are pushed in the field without a doctor on the line. Mr. BSA470Firstaider-save the world has no business giving anyone any sort of medication. The closest he can come to administering drugs is assisting someone in taking their own prescription meds in an emergency; he isn't legally allowed to even give a kid an aspirin. With the risk of conflicting medications removed what other prudent information could you possibly be missing in an emergency? There is very little medical history needed if you aren't pushing drugs if you are actually a trained medical professional. If you aren't trained to handle medical emergencies what makes you think youre going to know what to do with the information on the sheet? Working on an ambulance we are very seldom given the benefit of knowing a pt's medical history. Honestly I don't see any justification for hading out medical information to un-licensed "Rescue Randy" care givers, especially when they are 16 years old with a redcross "emergency response" course under their belts. (Dont get me wrong, its good information to have on hand if the kid ends up needing definitive care, but Im against it being divulged to minors on a power trip)

 

[dsteele]

Rydive:

 

Welcome to the forums!

 

Unc.

[scoutldr]

Welcome to the campfire!

 

If you noticed, this thread was a year old. Now you're gonna get 'em all wound up all over again!

 

;-)

[Fuzzy Bear]

I am dizzy from this ride and now it comes down to fists and tongues flying again. I think someone has really missed their meds even though we don't have a right to know but our need outweighs or desire and so forth and on and on. Why didn't we stop at quoting the Safe Scouting Guide? I mean by-gum Bob gets Doctor guy to back him and the then we get HIPPA and then BSA doesn't use HIPPA but some states do, depending on where you throw down your air mattress. Now everything is in a sealed envelope that has permission to heal but doctors won't do squat unless the kid croaks. Nobody should know except the kid and the parents but the parents should come along on all outings, so what is the reason we have those medical forms again?

 

This stuff is great!

 

FB

 

[bluegoose]

FuzzyBear-

 

I completely understand your frustration with the things being said, and I higly appreciate the satirical comment at the end...I love this stuff also. Anyway the intended purpose of medical forms is to:

 

1. Provide proof that a scout has been a physical examination by a physician, and that he or she is physically able to participate in Scouting activities.

2. Provide pertinent medical information to the medical staff at a resident camp, or similar institution.

3. Provide pertinent medical information to medical professionals, in the unfortunate case that a person needs to be treated by them.

 

There may be other reasons for which the medical form was intended, but as we all know, things have a way of not being used for their intended purpose, and sometimes even for things detrimental to their intended purpose. This post was only meant to clarify what FB had asked (yes, I am aware that FB may have meant the question to be of a rhetorical, and possibly satirical, nature. If this is the case, maybe what I have said will provide some insight to those who are looking for a serious answer to the question.) Peace, always.

[WoodenNickel]

As part of OWL training this past Saturday, the council staff suggested that each Den Leader have on hand a copy of a current Class 1 Class 2 physical "just in case", and that the copies go on each and every Webelos outing.

 

I don't think privacy is an issue since scouting, and activities, are voluntary. It is a one-sided situation ... if you want to participate you have to follow BSA rules.

 

Regarding meds, the word was "follow the public school", which in this state means that if a medication, either an Over The Counter or a medical Prescription, is given at 'school' it MUST be listed on the child's medical information card without regard to who administers it on 'school' property.

 

So, if a med is given at scouting, it must be listed.