Where to place a boy.

[fboisseau]

I would like some suggestion about where a boy should be placed. My family has a friend that has a foster child that due to his previous history has some developmental problems. He is currently 11 years old and will be turning 12 shortly. The grade he is in is technically 5th grade, but they are really doing work at a 4th or 3rd grade level. He is a quick study (going from not being able to read to reading at a 4th grade level in about 2 years). He is really interested in joining Scouts and really needs what the program can offer. My question is would it better to place him in a Webelos den or to place him in a troop? Please respond about this so I can work with the foster parent where to place the child.

[OldGreyEagle]

He is old enough to be a Boy Scout, so I think he should be a Boy Scout. He will need a troop that will welcome him with all his talents and limitations. Whatever his problems, be sure the adult leadership knows about them, but he will gain more from being with his peers than with younger boys

[SR540Beaver]

Boy Scouts. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the boys age trumps his school grade. We have a Webelos who was set back a year in school and even though he is repeating 3rd grade, he is in the Webelos den with the 4th grade boys his same age.

 

I would think that he would enjoy being with boys his age more so than boys a year or two younger. Plus, Boy Scouts would give him more structure and a chance to mature than Cub Scouts would.

[scoutldr]

Some thoughts on the subject from Baden-Powell himself:

 

"Moreover, there is only one standard by which a boy is judged as qualified for a badge, and that is the amount of effort he puts into his work. This gives direct encouragement to the dull or backward boy-the boy in whom the inferiority complex has been born through many failures. If he is a trier, no matter how clumsy, his examiner can accord him his badge, and this generally inspires the boy to go on trying till he wins further badges and becomes normally capable."

 

So, unless the handicap is severe (and there are units for those, as well), I think the Scout would benefit from being with those his own age. I worked with a Troop of Down's syndrome scouts at summer camp one year...we all learned a lot of lessons.

 

 

[KoreaScouter]

Boy Scout Troop, without hesitation. He's too old to be a Cub Scout, as far as he's concerned, and as far as the other Cubs are concerned. Moreover, the association with the older Scouts and the other adult leaders in the Troop could enhance his personal growth (one of our methods, after all...).

 

KS

[Bob White]

I think if I were in this position I would seek a meeting of the Cubmaster, Webelos Leader, Scoutmaster and parents to determine what was in the best interest of the boy. Perhaps a period of time in Webelos to better evaluate the scout's abilities and then place him in the program that would meet him at his present stage of development and help him to reach his potential.

Which unit and program would best serve him will be largely dependent on the skills and comfort levels of the leaders who will be directly working with him.

 

Bob White

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[evmori]

Boy Scouts without a doubt! As a matter of fact, he is more than welcome to join my Troop!

 

Ed Mori

Scoutmaster

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[SagerScout]

I was hoping Bob White would have an actual book answer. I know the book answer in Girl Scouts - it goes by age, period, regardless of developmental

delays or the reasons for the delays. I have a Senior Girl Scout in my troop who is significantly delayed (she's 16, reads at maybe 2cd or 3rd grade level), doesn't matter, she's still a Sr, wears the uniform of a Sr., works on IPP's like a Sr, is a Program Aide like a Senior. Activities are modified to fit her abilities - she doesn't read well, but understands oral language much better. So other girls read stuff to her when necessary. Written assignments are simplified if needed. Where she has strengths, she does the work just like any other senior - for instance, she's perfectly competent in child care and first aid, although it took longer for her to learn. She does her best at all times and is a great Scout. Unfortunately, she's also gorgeous and her company is requested by young men nearly every Friday night (our troop meeting night).

 

This seems to me to be a pretty good approach, and I don't find it especially hard to execute as a troop leader. It doesn't degrade the maturity of the individual - I mean, retarded adults are still adults, you can't pretend they are large children. In the case of the boy you are discussing, he's nowhere near as out-of-sync as this girl - a couple of years behind academically is really barely worth mentioning. The only place I could see it being a big issue would be in some of the merit badge work, and since he would choose his own merit badges with consultation with his SM, he could easily have it suggested to him to start off "slow and easy" with the badges that are less academically demanding while his skills catch up with his age. Sounds like it won't be too long a wait with a good foster family willing to work with him.

 

All that said, I do agree with Bob that it is important that the unit he enters be willing to deal with any behavior issues that might arise from his apparently difficult past. Behavior wasn't mentioned as the problem but it wouldn't be surprising to see problems crop up here. However, I do not agree that a Webelos to Boy scout plan is ideal for the following reasons: 1) About the time he gets used to Webelos he's going to cross over anyway, like it or not, could be more confusing to him than to a boy with a more stable background; 2 )Webelo's leaders are not necessarily any more likely to be good with this situation than a good SM, why have to break in 2 adult leaders to his needs within a year? and 3) he's most likely got enough trouble and teasing at school for being behind, why subject him to more when you could help lift him up by telling him he can run with the big boys now. Because he most likely can, and keep up just fine.

 

Too bad he's in another state, we'd take him in T302 in a heartbeat.

 

[Sparkie]

This boy sounds like my son (although younger). Are there other boys in his grade that are in Webelos, or have they already crossed over? I would recommend keeping him with the boys in his grade level, which most likely is Boy Scouts.

 

My son reads at a 6th grade level (he's in 8th) due to an eye condition, although he's mainstreamed for math and sci. (go figure!). You would never know he was developmentaly behind when he is with the other scouts. In fact, scouts that don't go to his school don't realize he's in special classes (except for math and sci.).

 

I would venture to say that the scouting program will also help him become more independent and self confident, and that will reflect both at home and school! I have really marveled at how my son has grown because of scouting. I don't know many 14 year olds who can pack themselves for a 2 night campout and not have "mom" double check their bag!

 

Keep us posted!

 

Sparkie

[Eagledad]

Given a choice of being with friends or going to a better program, nine out of ten boys will choose friends. I've had a few scouts like this and they do fine and actually do better than at school because the scouting program encourages a scouts to grow at his pace, not the expectations of others. When allowed, we humans excel toward what makes us feel good about ourselves. If the adults are willing, he will do fine.

 

I like to tell our adult leaders that we are doing OK when a boy goes home saying "I like myself when I'm with the Troop". I love scouting stuff.

 

Barry

[fotoscout]

Place him with his own age group, Boy Scouts. His delay is not of a medical nature, and you seem to feel that he has the ability to succeed in Boy Scouts.

 

His self esteem would be better served by placing him with boys of his own age. Serve his self esteem and everything else will fall into place.

[dsteele]

Here's an official non-answer. I say non-answer, because the Boy Scouts of America, in the case of the Cub Scout and Boy Scout programs sets minimum joining requirements. There is no age maximum for Cub Scouts and for mentally or physically challenged Boy Scouts.

 

That choice is left up to the parents with the acceptance of the unit the boy joins. If the foster parents feel the boy would better benefit from becomming a Webelos, then Webelos it is. If the leader will accept him. He meets the age requirement for a Boy Scout Troop and it sure sounds like it shouldn't be too tough to find him one. Again, the vote of the parent is the over-riding factor.

 

I would recomend a meeting such as someone described -- with yourself, the foster parents, the Webelos Leader and the Cubmaster. Evaluate what everyone feels is best for the boy and then put him in there.

 

I think the Girl Scouts of the United States of America (GSUSA) is an outstanding organization, but if the BSA made the age the only standard, I never would have had the honor of participating in a court of honor for a 40 year old mentally handicapped man who took 20 years -- and a lot of work -- to earn his Eagle Scout.

 

That was a cool moment!

 

DS

[Bob58]

I'm very sorry that I missed this post in March. We had a similar situation this year and in consultatuon w/ the boys parents placed him in the Pack w/ the emphasis on a Bare bones Arrow of Light. We knew that he could meet the requirements by the end of this summer and he has become an inspiration for some of the younger boys. He has camped, visited other units and knocked out 10 Activity badges. (ALL Quality work!)

The young man has chosen to attend Cub Day Camp this summer and complete some more work instead of crossing over & attending resident camp w/ the troop. (I think he is looking forward to one last Court of Honor w/ HIS Pack!)

This was a win/win solution for the BOY, our pack & the troop.

Bob

[fboisseau]

I thought I would bring you up to date on the situation. One of the reasons we were looking for a troop at this time was his sister had managed to get herself removed from the home by lying to social services about abuse, these charges were dismissed. The results of this was to cause a mental breakdown made worst by a lying vindictive social services case worker (this is the opinion of my friends lawyer). This social worker is trying to remove the boy from the home according to the social services lawyer to the judge based solely on her beliefs (ie no evidence), and against the recommendation of the child's court appointed lawyer. The only good thing to come of this is the child finally knows that he suffers from bi-polar and is getting treatment for it.

[mk9750]

I think it was dsteele who pointed out that the joining requirements are minimums, not maximums. As such, it seems to me that the goo dof the boy is the overriding factor. If he is just joining Scouts, I would look to place him where is is most comfortable, and all feel he has the best chance of success. If he were in a Webelos den and everyone was crossing, I'd cross him a the same time, rather than hold him back.

 

IMHO.

 

Mark