iPods and the "Real" Patrol Method

[JMHawkins]

A Scout is . . . .

 

...easier to define than produce.

 

The argument isn't about what "real Scouts" are, it's about how they come to be. The discussion is not about who is or is not a "real Scout", it's about what sort of program has the best chance to turn the average 12 year old into someone who really is trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean and reverent.

 

Personally I am convinced that the more adventure, the better the odds of a young man developing those qualities. Outdoors is inherently anti-bureaucratic, since Mother Nature does not give a twig about bylaws, resolutions, mission statements, committee meetings, or ISO9000 standards. Mother Nature is all about cause and effect, and is pretty good at enforcing accountability. The more I see of conference rooms and office buildings, the more convinced I am that modern civilization is more barbaric than the wilderness. We need to get kids out in the wild so they can learn to be civilized, unlike the feral humans inhabiting our carpeted jungles.

[Kudu]

 

Boy Scouts get Tech-Savvy to Boost Membership

 

An Eagle Scout who has worked for the Boy Scouts for 40 years, Brock noted there was a time when leaders thought Scouts should leave their cellphones behind when they headed out on hikes. Now, though, the thought is why not bring them along?

 

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/2012-05/D9UUDSLO0.htm

 

That is the point of this thread.

 

The Boy Scouts' membership peaked in 1972 at almost 5 million.

 

Why is it than when BSA millionaires ponder how to "boost membership," they never examine how Leadership Development killed the "Real" Patrol Method in 1972, when membership began to plunge.

 

Bring back the "Real" Patrol Method: Boost membership and fight obesity.

 

Yours at 300 feet,

 

Kudu

 

[RickHedge]

As a former Boy Scout in a troop that had a no electronics policy, I don't think a policy really matters.

 

Boys will find ways to distance themselves from the gorup if they really want to.

If you are going to ban boys from bringing iPods, to camping trips than ban novels as well.

If a Boy decides he needs some alone time it's probably for the best. I have always been a loner, I participated with and befriended most of the boys who were in my Troop. However, there are sometimes when you just want to have some time to yourself and listening to music is a great way to do that.

 

Now I do agree bringing Laptops, or iPads, and handheld gaming systems might not be the best option on hiking trips.

Just because of size and weight.

 

However, I did just purchase myself a BioLite CampStove, that recycles the fires heat as a source of energy to charge USB devices.

[JMHawkins]

On the subject of electronics, our Troop now has a policy. Here is how it came about.

 

On a campout, a scout brought a tablet device and watched a movie on it in his tent with his tent mates. The movie wasn't anything he shouldn't have been watching, it was within the guidelines of what his family allows him to watch. However, it wasn't within the guidelines of what another Scout's family allows him> to watch. Parents of said Scout raised a rukus when they found out and asked "what are you (meaning the adult leaders) going to do about this?"

 

What we (the adult leaders) did was tell the PLC the general nature of the complaint and ask them what they wanted to do about it. The PLC created an electronics policy. It's up to them to enforce, which makes sense since the main problem apparently is what guys are doing in their tents at night and I'm sure not going to be intruding on their privacy. I'm not sure if all of the parents understand this, but so far so good.

 

Me, I'll listen to an audio book while I'm walking around the neighborhood, but I don't hike with one playing in the wilderness. I do prefer to listen to it at night when I'm going to sleep instead of burning flashlight batteries reading.

[TAHAWK]

"Why is it than when BSA millionaires ponder how to "boost membership," they never examine how Leadership Development killed the "Real" Patrol Method in 1972, when membership began to plunge.

 

Bring back the "Real" Patrol Method: Boost membership and fight obesity.

 

Yours at 300 feet,

 

Kudu"

 

I suggest that attributing the fall in membership after 1972 to one of many changes in leadership training, including those designed by Bill Hillcourt, is unsustainable in fact or logic. It is also contrary to your expressed opinions on the "New Scouting Program" of 1972, which, as you know, sharply deemphasized the Outdoor Program in favor of "urban Scouting."(This message has been edited by TAHAWK)

[Kudu]

 

The point being that if you "brainstorm" how to boost membership, then a possible correlation in the fall in membership after 1972, and the end (that year) of Hillcourt's "Real" Patrol Leader Training (how to plan and conduct a Patrol Hike), should provide ideas as "creative" as replacing camping with soccer.

 

As you have pointed out, the Patrol Hike is still a part of Wood Badge, so to test Baden-Powell's Patrol System as a possible membership booster (and anti-obesity strategy) would be cheap and easy:

 

1) Find a few experimental Councils around the country: Those that still separate Wood Badge Patrols by about 300 feet.

 

2) Call participants' attention to the fact that their Patrols are camped Baden-Powell's minimum standard apart, and their Patrol Hikes are undertaken without the other Patrols, and without the Staffers.

 

3) Here is the radical step: Make explicit the idea that Baden-Powell's Patrol System (as they themselves have just experienced) is a method that they can take back to their home units.

 

4) Announce that Boy Scout leaders in the course have the option of adopting (as a Ticket item) B-P's Patrol System in their home units.

 

5) Track any differences between recruitment, retention, and obesity statistics in the Troops of the participants who implemented B-P's Patrol System as a Ticket item, and those who didn't.

 

Yours at 300 feet,

 

Kudu

http://kudu.net

 

[TAHAWK]

Rick,

 

We are honor bound to follow the rules. We should not ask of the youth what we are unwilling to do ourselves.

 

Regardless of the wisdom of the policy decision, B.S.A. rules require that at least two adults be "present" on a B.S.A. Scout outing, whatever "present" means.

 

On can follow BP's charge to get out if you cannot follow the rules, one can follow the B.S.A. rules AND do what one can to make B.S.A. Scouting exciting, attractive, and educational for youth with those rules.

 

An alternative is youth work outside the ambit of B.S.A., as you have advocated. That is where most youth work, for better or worse, is done.

 

B.S.A. membership numbers benefit from fun and exciting program that keeps the promise of youth leadership. That would be "fun and exciting" to youth.

 

Most of the unit programming that I have witnessed in the last thirty years is fairly dull. The decline in outdoor skills and outdoor skills training is pushing it further in the wrong direction. The leadership training the vast majority of adults receive is mediocre and dull if the wretched syllabus is followed closely (Which is why so many training teams use it only as a theme.). Roundtables could be great resources. Could be. The "wise old Commissioner" could be a great resource - if he existed in reality. "Troop Program Features" are uninspired and stale. Only Scouting [magazine] seems to have people who see the need to light things up, and that staff's opportunities are limited.

 

For the usual variety of reasons, adults seem as eager as ever to usurp the leader roles. I see absolutely no effort by B.S.A. or any of its paid arms to hold them to account -- either today or fifty years ago. Some volunteer leaders are willing to talk plainly to adults who will not even try to use the Patrol Method, but they have only moral authority. In my first life in Scouting, it seemed like adults were more willing to follow the rules.

 

B.S.A. does a poor job of even explaining to adults what The Patrol Method is. The pieces are there in the literature, but not pulled together by B.S.A. into a list of commandments or tests. Most adults, not understanding the Patrol Method and finding it unnatural, will dig out the pieces for themselves -- or even try. This situation is a great opportunity for motivated volunteers to help compensate for the performance of B.S.A.

 

Wood Badge and NYLT, which you find odious, do a good job of explaining, demonstrating, and guiding on the Patrol Method, but they remain an experience for a small minority. There is no follow-up beyond the WB Ticket because that is seen by B.S.A., somehow, as "taking time away from Scouting."

 

Physical fitness benefits from exercise and good diet. That is not dependent on following the Patrol Method and can be supplied in a prison camp The members of the local H.S. track team seem in fine shape although their activity is at the polar opposite from anyone's idea of the Patrol Method or Patrol System. Would more outdoor program help? Of course. Anything that would get kids away from the screen would help, but we have what you call "Webelos III" troops that backpack every other month. (Wouldn't a "Webelos III" troop hardly even meet as a unit? Would it's patrols not meet every week and the troop only once a month - like a Webelos?)

 

 

[Kudu]

 

Hearing from Tahawk and his ilk about what the B.S.A. rules require is certainly thought provoking.

 

Does anyone else see anything against the rules in my last post?

 

 

[TAHAWK]

Rick, I apologize if I have misunderstood, but I thought you had repeatedly advocated - in fact said you practiced - sending kids off on outings without adults. Whatever arguments can be made for such conduct, it clearly violates G2SS.

 

You have seemed to have repeatedly invoked one -- of the many -- tests for advancement in early UK Scouting as the authority for that conduct.

 

So when you use "Baden Powell" within fifty words of "Patrol Method" I take it that adult-free outings are part of that "method." Not so?

 

As I scouted in the era before G2SS and there were no real problems with patrol (or multi-patrol) outings without adults when such outings could be arranged, I would prefer that BSA give SM's the option of approving such outings. However, Irving isn't listening to me much lately.

[Kudu]

 

The GtSS still allows Patrol Hikes without adult association. As I explained elsewhere, here is the context for the Patrol backpacking videos I posted in this thread on Thursday, 5/17/2012: 8:13:42 PM:

 

1) Camp as a "Troop" on Friday night, Patrols at least 300 feet apart.

 

2) Saturday morning the older Scouts set off on their own Patrol Hike, taking about an eight (8) mile route to our Saturday afternoon location. This ad hoc Patrol is self-selected (by invitation only). As you can see from the videos, gung-ho Scouts as young as 11 are sometimes asked to join. In that case, the older Scouts carry their share of the food & equipment.

 

3) An ad hoc Patrol of younger (and/or less ambitious) Scouts sets off on a shorter route (about two [2] miles) to the same end location.

 

4) The adults set off along that same shorter route. The goal is for the adults to hike at least a couple football fields behind the younger Scouts, but that fluctuates with every hike depending on the capabilities of the younger Scouts. Last time we didn't see them again until we reached the destination, the trip before that two of their slower Scouts ended up hiking with us.

 

5) In the afternoon the three groups converge at the Troop's common location. The older Scouts camp a few football fields away from the adults, and the younger Scouts camp about 300 feet away from us, in the opposite direction.

 

6) Sometimes the three Patrols do not interact at all. Last time the older Scouts hosted a campfire for us and the younger Scouts, with the understanding that we wouldn't overstay our welcome

 

[TAHAWK]

Sounds wonderful, and I am happy for them. But am I mistaken that, at least speaking to the past, you advocated patrol campouts without adult supervision as part of the "Baden Powell" "Patrol Method"? Was that in the context of believing that patrol campouts without adult supervision were withing BSA's rules?

[JMHawkins]

Na, Tahawk, Kudu was quite clear in advocating patrol hikes. Re-read his post a little more closely and you will see that. Looks like everything in it is compatible with current G2SS guidelines.

 

Besides, even if he was advocating patrol camping, he was doing it in what I took to be a suggestion to BSA. The tip-off is "Find a few experimental Councils around the country." Clearly BSA national could change G2SS rules to premit Patrol Camping if they so choose. Advocating BSA change a rule is not in the least bit inconsistent with following the Scout Law.

 

 

[TAHAWK]

I take your point about advocacy. That hardly violates the Law. The contrary is true.

 

However, what Rick means by the "Baden Powell" "Patrol Method" has been built, post by post, over the years, and I would sooner he answer a question put to him about his understandings, beliefs, and opinions.

[SR540Beaver]

Kudu,

 

It is well established that you believe Wood Badge and management theory have caused the decline in scouting membership numbers. Perhaps. But I believe your disdain for WB makes you see boogie men where boogie men don't exist. Have you ever considered the domgraphics of the post-WWII baby boom?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post%E2%80%93World_War_II_baby_boom#Definition_of_the_boom_years

 

"The exact beginning and end of the baby boom can be debated. In the United States, demographers usually use 1946 to 1964, although the U.S. birthrate began to shoot up in 1941 and to decline after 1957."

 

I was born in 1957. I turned 18 in 1975. The available number of youth started declining during the 70's. That has a much larger bearing on the numbers of scouting than what was/is being taught at Wood Badge. Just because you were bitten by a black dog.....does not mean all black dogs bite. When considering what might be the cause of membership decline, your take on it is purely subjective. Using population numbers is objective. Before you denounce my use of wikipedia, you can scroll to the bottom of my link to see the bibliography and references used for the listing.

[Kudu]

 

"However, what Rick means by the "Baden Powell" "Patrol Method" has been built, post by post, over the years, and I would sooner he answer a question put to him about his understandings, beliefs, and opinions."

 

I would make a distinction between Baden-Powell's Patrol System (Patrol Hikes as training for individual Journeys), and Hillcourt's Patrol Method (Patrol Hikes as training for Patrol Campouts), but maybe all that historical context stuff is just too confusing?

 

Walking has remarkable health and fitness benefits (As discussed in the parent thread: I lost 20 pounds walking 3 miles a day. Like Eamonn --who walks five miles a day-- I weigh about the same as I did at 16).

 

Back when Scouting was popular, both the Patrol System and Patrol Method were based on Patrol Hikes:

 

"A Hike is a Walk with a Purpose" (GBB).

 

Since Wood Badge still includes a Patrol Hike, why not make taking the Wood Badge Patrol Hike back to the participants' units a Ticket item, and then promote it as the new "Health Savvy" Wood Badge?

 

JMHawkins writes:

 

"Na, Tahawk, Kudu was quite clear in advocating patrol hikes. "

 

And in the context of monthly Troop campouts!

 

Yours at 300 feet,

 

Kudu