PM in a large Troop

[OneHour]

btw ... are we doing PM the correct way? ... probably not, but we (the boys and the adults) are sure having loads of fun! Frustrations, you bet cha! Confusions, plenty! Chaos? All the times! Are they learning leadership? Hope so ... kicking, screaming, pulling, coaching, mentoring, etc ... We will continue to do as we have been doing until someone at the District or Council comes and tells us that we are not doing it correctly! So far, no one has! As a matter of fact, we scored 2100 in our Journey to Excellence survey. I guess that it is a decent score for the troop our size.

[shortridge]

It seems clear that your troop *doesn't* have sufficient resources to run an outdoor program, given this:

 

"On outings, there are usually ad-hoc patrols because of the limits on how much cooking equipment you can transport (and the Troop own without increadible expendeture)."

 

Patrols exist for the primary purpose of going on outings. If they get chopped up and reformed for every outing, then they don't really exist.

 

Fix the cooking issue, and the need for ad-hoc patrols will vanish.

[qwazse]

1Hour - that's more PM than we have in our average-sized troop!

 

One year our senior scouts where a bunch of scholar athletes. It made for a leadership vacuum in the fall. The younger scouts filled the vacuum with hardly a complaint. We did have to shy away from extremely rugged activities because the maturity just wasn't there for sufficient discipline. (On the flip side, the football team's defense was the smartest and fastest our conference had ever seen.)

 

[ThunderFox]

Pack212,

What do the other patrols think of the NSP's and their role in the troop. Odds are they do not like them.

 

If they don't then changing is easy if you have the SPL and the PLC come up with a plan for change. It will be their plan and they will work it. It may require some judicial hint planting. They will probably decide that they will start with assigning themselves as a tent buddy to a newbie on the first few campouts to show the new guys the ropes in an 1 on 1 manner. Of course the Buddy patrol will have some of the familiar Webelos as the newbies and in 3 or 4 months this group will be the basis of a new natural patrol and not a NSP.

 

It will allow you to never have another NSP again. Your current Scouts will see the opportunity for brotherhood and/or leadership and volunteer to be buddies. And, boys with that motivation should be the buddies so they will do a good job.

[fred8033]

Just to give a voice of dissent. We form new scout patrols from the incoming scouts. Once they gain a few months of experience, we let them choose. Radical yes, but it works. If the scouts want to stay together, fine. If they don't, fine.

 

We just want scouts to believe in their patrol and not disappear to find their friends all the time. My oldest son came into the troop with most of his cub scout den and received a few more scouts to become a patrol. They stayed together for seven years. Thru scouting, they became best of friends. Those guys served as SPL, TG, QM and just about every other position in the troop. And after their term of service, they always had their own patrol waiting for them.

 

Personal opinion ... I don't care for dictating patrol membership or breaking up friendships to make sure each patrol has mixed ages or mixed experiences or .... Let the scouts choose. Plus, if there is a leadership void or skill void or ...., that's a great chance for one of the scouts to step up and grow. If they need help, there's always the TG or ASPL or SPL.

 

 

[TAHAWK]

"What has been happening is the new boys come over as new Scout patrols. They generally want to stay with their buddies that they've been with in Cub Scouts for years. They get assigned a youth Patrol Guide who is usually at least Star. over time, these patrols dwindle down and wind up merged with other patrols. On outings, there are usually ad-hoc patrols because of the limits on how much cooking equipment you can transport (and the Troop own without increadible expendeture)."

 

I was a Scout in a Troop of 120 Scouts years ago. It had no problem running the Patrol Method.

 

As a patrol is ideally a group of friends, having Scouts want to 'stay with their buddies" is hardly a problem. Boys want to have fun with their friends.

 

Why do the Scouts leave ("dwindle")? If "customers" start staying away, it would be good to know why.

 

Typically, Scouts drop out because they are not getting fun and adventure. That suggests a program that is too much talk, talk and not enough walk, walk. How much is "enough"? Are they staying?

 

There may be reasons to "dwindle" particular to a given boy that can be addressed. (Dad and Mom are drunk every day by 6PM and cannot drive Johnny to the meeting. Provide transportation. Real world example.)

 

Troop meetings present a real likelihood of boredom. Learning knots in the abstract is one thing. Learning knots for a wilderness survival campout or to beat the socks off the other patrols is quite another. Fun and adventure. You can ask them what's "fun." They will tell you, and you may be surprised. If you can't have a meeting that translates into fun and adventure, no meeting would be better.

 

The cost of outfitting a patrol for cooking over an open fire is far less that the cost of uniforming a single boy for soccer, much less football or baseball. You need an 8-10 qt. pot (and lid), a couple of smaller pots (and lids), a fry pan and some $1.00 utensils. Old steel oven (not refrigerator) shelves make grates. You need a three small plastic tubs for KP. Second-hand from the Goodwill, Volunteers of America, Salvation Army, garage sales, or the like works just fine. (A Scout is ...) Find some veteran Scouters and ask for ideas. It all fits in a Rubbermaid "Roughneck" plastic tub, or in packs if broken up for backpacking. It takes up less space than tentage for a patrol, and used reasonably will outlast generations of tents. (We have cook kits from the 1960's. They are obviously used but fully functional.)

 

Adding chemical stoves ups the cost by about $50 per patrol (Coleman Sportster II [Apparently single fuel Sportster is no longer manufactured.])

 

To stimulate thought:

http://www.outdoorcook.com/article1037.php

http://macscouter.com/cooking/

http://www.scoutingthenet.com/Camping/Outdoor_Equipment/Dealers/

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/archive/index.php/t-15329.html

http://voices.yahoo.com/how-recycle-coffee-can-7730544.html

http://vidgrids.com/camp-cooking-equipment [There is a whole world of ideas out there. However, BSA has decided, totally irrationally in my opinion, that "home made" alcohol stoves are dangerous.]

 

[Pack212Scouter]

Most of the dwindling I think is due to the fact that we get nearly 100% bridgeover from Webelos. The bottom line is that for about half of those boys, they are in it because their parents want them there. Sports and band, etc, start to take up more time in those middle school years and various other things. Eventually we don't see them anymore. As they do other activities and gain friends there...losing contact with the boys in Scouting, they start to show up less and less. The bottom line from what I see is that in spite of what we would all like, Boy Scouting is not a top priority for them in this day and age of competing activities.