Patrols >8?

[chaoman45]

The ideal patrol is no less than 6 and no more than 8. We've used that reasoning for over 100 years, so it's not like the people at national thought of it arbitrarily. My question is if it's terrible to have patrols of... say 12.

 

When I was a youngun, my patrol was at 11 when I first started and dwindled down to 4 at one point. I don't think it was ever at a solid 8, and if it was, it wasn't for long. Our Scoutmaster of several years was under the assumption that patrols are sustainable for up to 12. It had its advantages, too. You never have to worry about 4 or less of your patrol members going on campouts. I could list disadvantages, but those are obvious (harder to maintain, rowdiness, etc).

 

How do you handle your patrol sizes? Is more than 8 a recipe for fail?

[Stosh]

Young leaders need a starting point in which to experiment with their fledgling skills. To think that someone can start out with taking responsibility for 12 others is quite a daunting task.

 

Too often the "goal" of the patrol method is to have numbers at an event without ever realizing that a group of 12 boys may have other factors other than teamwork and camaraderie as their main focus.

 

Smaller groups develop stronger bonds and when the numbers aren't there solid patrols will work to make sure their buddies show up without adult intervention, i.e. adding extras into their mix so they have good numbers.

 

BP thought of Scouting as gangs, of which strong loyalties were a major component. For a leader to work effectively, that gang can't become unwieldy.

 

And if one does the math, a professionally trained teacher has all they can do to handle a class of 24 and one wishes to take half that number and turn it over to a 10 year old PL just starting out? I don't think so. 6-8 is number selected because of leadership limitations for young boys. Deviations from that are mostly based in rationale other than leadership development.

 

Stosh

[OldGreyEagle]

a 10 year old patrol Leader? Wow!

 

I guess anything can happen and the only way to see if patrols of 12 work for you is for you to try them

[qwazse]

Nothing that can keep you from doing it. Failure depends on your metric:

If success to you means always having at least 6 from a patrol on any outing, then obviously 12 minimizes the risk of that kind of failure.

If success means your PL can relay a message to every boy in his patrol within 1/2 hour, then 12 increases the risk of that kind of failure.

 

Think of it this way: 12-24 is size of our venturing crew, and my officers are hard-put to keep their fellow youth engaged in the program. Sixteen year-olds have lots of communication tools at their disposal, but they have barely learned to communicate.

 

If managing 12 is a big task for a 16 year old, it probably is more than a 11-14 year old can handle. (Remember, the 12-14 year old has video games to play, etc ...)

[Beavah]

Yah, just depends, eh?

 

If yeh really are usin' 10 year old patrol leaders than 8 patrol members is probably too much. If you're usin' older boy patrol members then that ain't as much of an issue.

 

Havin' watched this a while, I think da worst sin is "patrol collapse" on campouts, which sometimes in some troops results in "temporary patrols". So I think yeh have to look at your attendance, eh? If your attendance is usually 75% or so and yeh want viable patrols of 6-8 on an outing then yeh want patrol sizes of 8-10. That should guarantee that even on an outing with more conflicts yeh won't fall below 4. If your attendance is more like 60%, then yeh want patrols to be in da 10-12 range.

 

So loosely speakin', unless yeh have strict attendance requirements, it's usually better to go a bit higher than 8.

 

Then there's practical considerations. If yeh have 10 boys in da troop, one patrol of 10 might be better than two "too small" patrols of 5. Or not, if yeh have high attendance and do lots of patrol competitions.

 

Best is to choose an approach that works for you and your boys, rather than hold on to some book guidance written in a different era. And if yeh find that what you're doin' isn't accomplishing what yeh want, then yeh can change again and try somethin' else.

 

Beavah