Nudging my Troop in the "Right" Direction

[EagleScouter2010]

Hi, I am new to this forum and so thankful that I have found it. I am an Eagle Scout in my troop and feel that I am one of the few who is motivated for a change. I have been in my current troop for one year now and it has always been adult lead. Our current SM, who is about 2 years into the position, recently decided to push towards a boy lead troop. I have been reading the Patrol Method forum topics like crazy for the past two weeks so that I could help him.

 

I would like to start out by stating how our Troop has recently "elected" a new SPL and an ASPL. The two boys were our only members who were both willing and qualified for the position. The others who were qualified simply had no motivation (including our current ASPL who is only tagging along with his best friend, the current SPL.) The two newly "elected" leaders sat together with another Eagle (one who has a lot more important priorities than BSA) and split our Troop into two patrols without the boys' consent. One boy told me that he would quit scouting if he was not in his friend's patrol. It was easy enough to keep the two friends together though. Currently, our SM is still switching boys to correct the "mistakes" made by the boy leaders.

 

At our last meeting, the SM instructed the SPL on which requirements to assign the entire troop to do. He chose the timber hitch, which turned into a five minute bowline and timber hitch tying and then an hour of "free time." I am going to be actively involved with our webelos II den until they are ready for their AOL and need a way to encourage the boys to step up when I am not there. An adult even commented to me that he wished that I had been there because no one (not even the other Eagle, youth leaders, or adults) was keeping the troop on track and running smoothly.

 

Nothing got done in the meeting except for the quick knot tying. The two patrols still have no name, yell, flag,...etc. I was hoping for them to accomplish this last night but that did not happen. Another problem is that the boys do not recognize the patrols yet. The SM (not the SPL) separated the boys into their patrols to start...but being only 30 feet from the other, it did not take much effort for one boy's friend to migrate toward him and soon others moved too.

 

My SPL commented on not having a NSP and I informed him that the boys will probably be slightly intimidated if they are split up right away. I even offered to him a fun lashing game that the boys could do in patrols and his response was "Well, that won't work, most of the boys don't know how to lash" (not exact wording as i do not have a photographic memory.) I was extremely shocked and asked him how the boys were supposed to learn them if they didn't have activities like that. At this, he quickly sighted the other Eagle scout and walked by me to talk with him.

 

My concern is in the boys, not the adults. The SM and some of the ASM leaders have the knowledge or motivation but, I would like to approach this entirely boy lead; and I would like other opinions on how to tackle this problem. I am hesitant to mention any more of the ideas on this forum to the SPL and SM because of the manner in which they treated my comment about keeping an NSP for a few months at least.

 

Please help my troop.

Thanks!

[Kudu]

The Patrol Method is an Outdoor Method.

 

I currently work with an adult-led Troop of about 50 Scouts. The way I got the Patrol Method started was to take the gung-ho outdoorsmen on short "backwoods fishing trips" (about a half-mile the first couple times because none of them had ever camped away from a Troop trailer).

 

The indoor Scouts, indoor Eagles, and the indoor adult leaders all stayed home. That left only the Scouts who really liked the outdoors (ages 11 - 17), and the only three adult leaders who had been Scouts when they were boys.

 

I picked the four obvious natural leaders, then had the Scouts pick buddies of two or threes, then had the groups of buddies separate themselves into two ad hoc Patrols of friends. Then I told the two pairs of leaders to find interesting Patrol sites "about a football field apart." At first we all cooked together because they had never used my gas backpacking stoves before, but after the first outing everything "clicked" and they began to buy their own.

 

If you can physically separate (as far as possible) Patrols of outdoor boys under their most competent natural leaders, then everything begins to make sense without much talking (except to solve practical problems).

 

With this core of "Real" Scouts, we then began to separate the Patrols on whole-Troop campouts according to the competency of their elected leaders.

 

If you think of the Patrol Method in terms of physical distance and keeping friends together in the great outdoors, everything else will eventually fall into place.

 

Yours at 300 feet,

 

Kudu

http://inquiry.net/patrol/index.htm

 

[moosetracker]

Welcome to the forum ES2010!

 

I have never been a SM, so you will get lots better advice from others.. But I have some questions, that will help others also get the big picture..

 

I have been in my current troop for one year I am interpreting this as you earn your Eagle rank in a different troop.. One more patrol led?

 

I get the feeling that there is total upheaval with the setting up of patrols.. There is something about the election of the SPL/ASM also.. So I have to ask..

Is this is the first time for this troop to have SPL and patrols? Did This troop not require the boys to have POR's?? How did the one Eagle become an Eagle? You can't get past 1st class without serving time in a POR.. I have seen troops that give boys a POR, but then the adults control them like puppets, or they were used as the SM's go-fer.. But, not one that didn't even pretend to hand out jobs..

 

I get the feeling by your comments the SM is also half-hearted about the change..

Currently, our SM is still switching boys to correct the "mistakes" made by the boy leaders. Wouldn't it be better not to undermind the SPL/ASPL at this fledgling start? There may be mistakes made, this is the time to guide the new SPL/ASPL, by talking to them.. Asking them how they would correct the problems, and guide them with questions to look at a few solutions, and then decide on a choice of action and allowing the new SPL/ASPL to make the corrections.. The SM has bascally just confirmed they will be figure heads with how he fixed the problem.. They will now be hesitant to make any decisions, but will learn to follow the SM lead..

 

At our last meeting, the SM instructed the SPL on which requirements to assign the entire troop to do. He chose the timber hitch, which turned into a five minute bowline and timber hitch tying and then an hour of "free time." Can you get the Troop Program Guide Volumn I II & III? I would get this and a few blank forms on the troop Meeting Plan http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/34425.pdf and have your new leadership look over the Volumns and give them free rain to come up with their own meeting plans (With guidence to think about skills needed for a coming camporee, or troop event)... In order for them to "get into" the organizing of the troop meeting, they have got to get excited and buy into what they are doing.. (Also the starting of this Statement At the last meeting... So how much time did the SPL/ASPL have to plan this meeting?? If only 5 minutes and you gave them the instruction of only one knot.. You got out of that meeting what you asked for 5 minutes of tieing the knot, and free time afterward.. Are you organizing monthly PLC meetings?? Have you done a yearly planning meeting?? Do you have troop goals to work for??

 

The NSP I wouldn't be too concerned about, sounds like your whole troop is basically NSP's.. Depends on if you don't think the older boys are going to welcome in the new boys or treat them like nagging little runts.. My son chose a troop because at the visiting meeting the older boys worked with them. He loved it, he was not happy when he joined the troop and found himself in a NSP.

 

Have you thought about visiting other troops in the area who have a good organizations.. Maybe you or the SM can visit them and when you find one you like have the SPL & ASPL come on a visit.

 

Have you and the SM gone for SM/ASM Specifics training? Do not wait for the video, go to a real class NOW.. The little video will not be half as good.. I ask because all I mention about the planning suggestions in order to allow the SPL/ASPL focus on goals long term & short term and organize meetings comes straight out of that course.. You should also take the other training required.. I know you have the knowledge by being an Eagle scout, but now you need to learn how to be the guide for the boys and stand on the sidelines of the game, encouraging others to get into the game and play..

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Eagle92]

Moose asks some good questions, and the answers will affect how you go about the change. Kudu also gives some great advice, although he did forget the #1 piece IMHO (must be because of his other scouting project he's working on and forgot), and that is to get a copy of the 3rd edition SM handbook, both volumes. While some of the info will need to be modified for modern times, it provides a great foundation for patrol leader training, and the patrol method.

 

You may need to take the PLC only on a few comping trips, especially if this is a relatively new troop and haven't been around for a long time or haven't been youth led. That way they can be properly trained in the PM. You're also going to need to instill in the older scouts a sense of duty to the younger ones.

 

The 3 volumes of Troop Program Features are a start as they the PLC a set of premade lesson plans to work on skills at meetings, and then going on a trip to use those skills. I know KUDU isn't a fan boring meetings ( and neither am I), but if they focus on scout skills, both the new scouts learning them and the older scouts perfecting them AND teaching the younger guys, AS WELL AS an inter-patrol activity that builds the camaraderie and teamwork of the patrol, AND THEN GO CAMPING USING THE SKILLS AND PATROL METHOD. Change will occur. It may take time, but it will work.

 

 

Good luck and WELCOME TO THE FORUMS, DON'T BE A LURKER!

[Stosh]

Welcome to the forum!

 

I'm over-the-top when it comes to boy-led, patrol-method as many on the forum will attest.

 

Just a couple of insights to begin with....

 

1) The boys coming from an adult-led program basically don't know what to do and will wander aimlessly until some training is given. The comment by Kudu on the stoves will attest to this. The spirit is willing but the body doesn't really know what to do.

 

2) Boys want to be with their friends. The patrols need to be aligned on their buddies. No one wants to go off on an outing and be 300' from their friends. Don't fight that dynamic, use it! Buddies will drag each other to events if necessary to get the numbers.

 

3) Make sure the boys have outlined goals for themselves, i.e. outings, meeting agendas, etc. They won't go after goals set by others. They want to do their own thing. As long as it's within the guidelines of the BSA program, go for it!

 

4) Planning is just as important as going. Make sure they boys have 100% input into the preparation of the activities. Just because the SM says we need to do knots, doesn't mean the boys are going to go after it whole-heartedly. Maybe simply suggesting it would be kinda neat to have a 20' tower made out of home-made rope and lashed together. Or maybe a 10' monkey bridge over a small creek. Don't have a 20' 1" rope? Make one. Put the idea out there and let the boys figure it out.

 

5) Have a meeting structure/agenda in each patrol that everyone knows about.

 

a) 5 minutes for opening flags

b) 10 minutes for business meeting

c) 20 minutes for training

d) 20 minutes for game

e) 5 minutes for closing flags

 

A general 1 year calendar (created by the boys) should have all the meeting themes, outing, etc. all outlined so the boys always have something to look forward to while they are doing the training, prep at the meetings. Not much sense practicing a musical instrument if you never play in a concert.

 

The number one principle behind boy-led is unless they have a goal and are trained to go after it, they are just going to wander around aimlessly. Unless the adults identify their interests they are never going to be able to guide the boys towards obtaining THEIR goals!

 

Your mileage may vary,

 

Stosh

 

 

 

[SeattlePioneer]

>

 

 

 

In my opinion, this is the most important issue to a boy led patrol and troop.

 

 

The second, as ably described by Kudu, is going camping.

 

 

Camping requires skills. If you don't have 'em you will need to learn 'em.

 

If you didn't bring food or can't cook, you go hungry. That creates a Scouting agenda of Learning to Cook.

 

If it rains and you got wet, that creates a Scouting agenda of choosing and using equipment.

 

And so on.

 

This is the Trail To First Class.

 

Going camping each month creates a depth of experience and framework for troop meetings. There really isn't TIME for merit badge classes if you are always planning where to go camping, busy getting ready to go camping, or learning the lessons from the last camping trip.

 

The last element really is competition between patrols. That natural rivalry can be around who has the best meals, the best camp setup and who has the best skills and such. There are lots of ways to add fun by having competition between patrols.

 

 

I would recommend that you check to see if your district has a spring camporee coming up. Camporees ought to be a great exhibition of good patrol camping. And every troop camping trip should be a miniature camporee.

 

Keeping adults from interfering with those patrol activities is also important. The troop that cooks together is greatly hampering patrol development.

 

Camping at state parks that charge $20 per campsite encourages everyone camping together, and is bad for developing patrols.

 

 

Camping at Boy Scout Camps may be good, because usually there is plenty of elbow room for patrols as Kudu describes, and usually they are pretty economical. Once you have developed good car camping skills, then more ambitious backpacking or other trips are a natural.

 

Good luck with developing your patrol and troop program!

[EagleScouter2010]

Thank you all for your advice so far. I would like to clarify a few things and make this as specific as possible for you.

 

Kudu, I like your overall idea of weeding out the "indoor" scouts, but I still have the problem with my SPL. I feel that I should not do things over his head but I also feel that he is not motivated anymore and will not listen to my suggestions or ideas. I really wish that there were four obvious natural leaders in my troop!

 

moosetracker, to answer, your first question, yes I was in another troop, but it was slowly collapsing as I reached Eagle. It had 2 patrols with about 10 boys in each (only because about 6 in each patrol regularly showed up.) My SM at the time was trying to organize it as a boy lead troop and then we realized that most of the boys wanted a second cub scout program...We hit a speed bump about a year before the troop ended, with about 80% of the boys leaving the troop and leaving scouting. Only two of the boys went to another troop (both leaving, ironically, for a boy lead troop; they were not willing to help create one, they wanted to be in one immediately.) As our troop folded, one boy (I think tenderfoot,) the other Eagle, and I moved over to my current troop.

 

Your next question was about the way my current troop had been run. I am told stories about it having 3 patrols at one point, all of them being extremely boy lead. The same adults are still around, but mostly they only use their mouths and physically do not help. The troop has monthly committee meetings that involve arguing and chit-chat about the weather. The SM has not been with the troop as long as them (therefore, he has motivation but lacks the ideas.) The troop that I am in consists of me, the other eagle, a 15 year-old, two 14 year-olds (the SPL and ASPL,) and the rest are 12-13. Before the other Eagle and I came over, they had one older boy (also an Eagle) but he is now an adult...

 

I'm assuming POR is (position of rank) I've never heard anyone use that acronym except for here. I listed the ages of the boys above and their ranks are: one star, two first class, maybe 3 second class, and then the rest, (one is still scout...) With some of the positions, we will have to omit the rank or experience requirements because most of the boys have never had a position. The other Eagle got to his rank by what I guess is luck. because of the boys in our previous troop slowly dropping out, he was able to be frequently elected to a position. He also swears frequently and likes to play a game of "listen to me or I'll hit you" with the scouts (that is why i believe the new scouts coming in would be intimidated.) I honestly believe that my new SM is even starting to see this in him and giving up on the boy's Eagle "experience"

 

I hate to say this because I want my troop to be boy lead, but the SM was right when he switched some of the boys. The SPL and ASPL picked the patrols with the other Eagle scout hovering over their shoulders pointing his finger and making suggestions. Because we have no patrol leaders...still...each patrol is lead by SPL/other Eagle, and ASPL/me...and of course most of the boys who have social difficulties were all in the same patrol that was going to be my responsibility. The patrols had to be switched so that the patrol method would work.

 

I would love to see (it might be jblake47's idea that I read somewhere) of giving the camping ideas to the boys and throwing them out if there is not youth leadership for them, but this troop would die as quickly as my last one if this happened.

 

Your next suggestion was a good one that we read scouting resources...but unfortunately, asking my SPL or other scouts/scouters, other than the SM and one other ASM, would be like asking a frog to speak. I might want it desperately to happen, but no matter how hard I try it would not happen. I need a way to motivate them, because saying that nothing will get done if there is not youth leadership would probably make them laugh and turn to the adults.

 

The last meeting was very uneventful...I had assumed (stupid me!) that the scouts under our new SPL, who I WAS very confident in, would have new patrol names, yells, flag designs/ideas, and that he would have organized a date for a PLC. (this brings up another question for me) BSA states that the PLC consists of the SPL, ASPL, PLs, and TG, I believe. As of now, this would consist of two boys. I am hoping to become a JASM soon and am wondering how to suggest to my SPL that I should help in the PLCs without sounding like I am controlling him.

 

Next, we currently have not accomplished any of my hopes listed above...no PLC and no meetings planned. It never occurred to me that we should watch another troop. If I can get the SM and SPL on board with that, I would like to give that a try. I know a few troops with some of my friends involved in them that would let us visit.

 

I believe that my SM is trained, but I have not been to any training...(I prefer reading things online like this, they are much more efficient and save me time/money.) I never went to my local NYLT because multiple scouts spoke negatively about the councilors there and that they were not very scout-like. I know that I must stand on the side-lines now, but part of me wants to jump in and get involved. I never experienced a true boy lead troop and I am sad to realize what I have missed out on. Also, with the age of the boys, I do have to step in on some (most) occasions to teach them new skills.

 

Wow, you really got me thinking, moosetracker, thanks!

 

Eagle92, thanks for the advice. I am not sure if I can get a copy of those books, but I will try. I have been trying for the past month to get the activities organized, but my SPL has already refused the only one that I have been able to show him because "the scout's cannot do an activity if half of them don't know a certain lashing"

 

jblake47, I am trying or will try all of your suggestions and am hoping that all of them work

 

Should I suggest that our older youth leadership goes to NYLT (maybe including me...)??? I guarantee that it would have to be troop paid to convince anyone to go.

 

If you need any more info. on how my new troop does things, please ask so that you can offer as much advice as possible.

[EagleScouter2010]

SeattlePioneer, with my current troop, I am not sure if they should learn from mistakes at this point, most of them would be pulled out by angry parents and I would need to find another troop...I love learning from mistakes, but most people don't understand that, especially with the mindset that "everyone is a winner"

 

We are participating in our area's upcoming camporee and we are camping a few weeks after this as a troop. I would love to try the separation of patrols on both of these trips and I would also like to plan events for my troop's trip to show the younger boys that it is not too difficult.

 

Again, thanks for all the advice, keep it coming. Thanks!

[CalicoPenn]

Question - when is the next election for SPL and if you aren't 18 yet, why don't you put your hat in the ring?

[moosetracker]

True, you could be the next SPL if not 18 yet.. But a JASM could go to PLC's same as a SM or sometimes one or two ASM's go.. But if under 18 at JASM you would be still part of the youth leadership of your unit..

 

Also I might have steered you wrong, you can see if your district will fudge the age to let you go to training early, but they would not let my son go unt about 17 1/2 (although they let Venturing Crews do adult leader training at any age).. Therefore my son took every on-line course he could and had to wait. The NYLT would be nice, but the troop also may not have the extra cash on hand to send 3 boys off to it.. Doesn't hurt to ask though.

 

If your SM goes to RoundTable, you might want to pick a troop to visit which isn't too close by.. He can talk to othe SM there and find a few.. Reason for the distance, is you want to excite them to emulate what they see, but not to jump ship.. If the troop you visit is too close by, jumping ship may be easy.

 

I was not saying the changing of the patrols was the wrong thing to do.. I agree, allowing friends to stay togeather is important (as long as the friendships are not so entangled, you can not make a division).. Just that the method of how your SM fixed it was not the right way to do it.. You should have allowed the SPL & ASPL see the mistake (with adult guidence if needed).. Then allowed them to fix the error, allowing them to save face, and have the respect of the other boys they are leading..

 

If you look at the Troop Program guide it is not so hard reading.. You don't read it cover to cover.. It is first broken out into activities, canoeing, white water rafting, hiking etc.. from they list they can choose something they may like to learn the skills for (and as others stated, in the end go on an outing to utilize the skills).. Over time, your unit may no longer need the books, but it is a great starting point for a group who is clueless about how to get the Patrol Method going, because once you figure out something your troop is excited about, it breaks it down into about 4 meetings with the plans laid out. You can start by following them, then learn to modify them, then slowly move away from depending on them..

 

The others have given you great ideas about the outings.. The outings are the most important, but the meetings are there to develop the skills and planning for the next outing, and to be boy lead the boys must take ownership of the orgainizing and planning or they will continue to be boy led.. Also team building games & competitions will get the patrols to start working together..(This message has been edited by moosetracker)

[EagleScouter2010]

CalicoPenn, our next elections will most likely be held in march/april of 2012. I believe that they should be held bianually, but the SM wants it to go a year (at least for now) since the troop is slowly becoming boy lead again. I am under 18, and my reason for not volunteering myself is due to the SM; he has said that he wants the Eagles to be JASMs because that is more of an all inclusive position. I do agree with him and have agreed to his offer though.

 

I do love all of your suggestions that you are giving, but as for campouts, I have a lot of plans/ideas now. I am lost at how to improve our meetings. They each last 90 minutes and barely anything gets done. As I mentioned earlier, I will be involved with the Webelos II den every night (they meet for an hour starting when we do) for the first 30-45 minutes. My troop has very limited "good" leadership (I would like to consider myself the best youth leader, I'm so modest...) and I need a way to ensure that my SPL and ASPL are keeping the patrols busy and happy. I have found many activities but as of my last meeting, the SPL is being more of a road block to my ideas. He disagrees with the NSP concept (important in our troop to keep them away from the intimidating older boy) and does not like the idea of the troop game/activity to learn skills. He prefers the sit-down and stare at your instructor method, at least for the 5 minutes that he tells someone to instruct them. I wanted to talk with him last meeting but was overwhelmed with the Webelos for longer than expected and did not get the chance. I have found SPL guides from other troops online and want to show them to him as a starting block.

 

Basically, my problem is how to encourage the SPL to become the leader that I believe he can be.

 

Regarding the guides, I have access to TG stuff and am getting a den chief guide to help with the transition of the new boys into our troop.

 

Thank you for all of your suggestions, again. And keep them coming.

[Kudu]

EagleScouter2010 writes:

 

Kudu, I like your overall idea of weeding out the "indoor" scouts, but I still have the problem with my SPL. I feel that I should not do things over his head but I also feel that he is not motivated anymore and will not listen to my suggestions or ideas.

 

We had the same problem. One of the reasons we started back-country fishing trips was that our SPL boasted about how he did not like camping. He is one of those Life Scouts who packs his camping gear in a suitcase with wheels. When the Tenderfoot Scouts would try to start a campfire using spark tools and natural tinder, he would say, "No! Use THIS!" and pull a chemical log out of his dad's car.

 

I simply announced the back-country trip as something outside the regular program.

 

I never used the term "backpacking," but everybody knew it would involve moving their personal equipment through space.

 

So the SPL and the other indoor Scouts simply did not sign up, no hard feelings.

 

EagleScouter2010 writes:

 

I really wish that there were four obvious natural leaders in my troop!

 

I think it was Eagledad who said that about 5% of the population are natural leaders. That has been my experience too: For every 20 Scouts, one of them is a natural leader. If you don't let him lead then he's usually the guy at the back of the room causing all the trouble.

 

If you can't figure out who it is, it is not that big a deal. The Scouts will figure it out. The whole point of the Patrol Method was that in small outdoor groups, boy leaders emerge naturally. It's the guy who starts suggesting stuff when nobody knows what to do.

 

Our two older Scouts landed on their feet. They had never backpacked before, but by the end of the first weekend, one of them was making plans to hike part of the Appalachian trail near his family's cabin in Georgia (which he did), and now the other is headed off to Philmont this summer.

 

Really, if you yourself like backpacking, do yourself a favor and try it out. Letting the Scouts figure out "Boy-Led" in the backwoods is a whole lot easier than agonizing over personalities, indoor meeting plans, team-building exercises, and stuff like "PLC, SPL, ASPL, PLs, TG, SM, ASM, JASM, NYLT, POR (Position of Responsibility, btw), etc., etc.," as you are doing now.

 

The leaders will emerge if you get them a half-mile from the parking lot.

 

As SeattlePioneer writes, you can accomplish that in a Boy Scout camp (if you are willing to hike out with packs).

 

When it came time for me to hand off to the Scouts responsibility for scheduling the next backcounty trip, recruiting the adult leaders, calling for reservations, making menus, figuring out water logistics, etc., Philmont Scout made excuses "I have too much homework," so Appalachian Scout stepped up. Then the Scouts voted him in as SPL. Then Philmont Scout surprised everyone and organized a 50 mile bike trip.

 

Well, in a few short hours our Troop is off to the Florida Keys for a week of Boy Scout SCUBA diving. See you all down the trail.

 

Yours at 300 feet,

 

Kudu

 

SCUBA Diving Merit Badge:

http://www.inquiry.net/scuba_diving_merit_badge/index.htm

 

[Eagle92]

To bad the next election is next year. Although I know the SM wants you as a JASM, what the troop really needs is a SPL who knows what he is doing, and can get the troop back on track.

 

Sometimes you need to adapt, improvise, and overcome challenges. And the current SPL is one.

[qwazse]

ES2010,

 

Here's the "dirty little secret" about boy-led. As soon as it comes together, that group of boys moves up or on or out and you're starting all over again. On the other hand, that's what makes it fun. For example, our SM assigned patrols. For a couple months they would sound of Patrol 1, Patrol 2, Patrol 3. Every time, I would yell, "Are we in cub scouts? Dens have numbers, not patrols!" It took them a while to catch on. Still no flags. But at least the PL's are starting to work a little better together. They actually have appetizing meals planned for the next campout.

 

For your meetings, I have two words:

 

Dodge Ball

 

or maybe these two:

 

British Bulldog

 

or more generally:

 

Opening Activity

 

Here's another: Sing (Do guys still do that? You know, it's what those little folks inside the MP3's do when they're not cussing.)

 

I have little patience for meetings that go over 20 minutes, so there's no reason to expect your boys to tolerate 90 well. You literally could accomplish a PLC in part of the time you have troop meetings. So give your boys a chance to have a little fun before flags. At the 60-minute mark, dismiss the troop (younger boys could have SM conferences or boards of review while they wait for their parents to come), pull your youth leaders aside (as JASM you may have to bring a chocolate bar or some other officers privilege) and do a "what went well, what didn't go well, what should we do differently" review of the meeting. You'll have to put your opinions on the back-burner for this, the goal is just to get your key guys listening to each other.

 

After a couple of these "on the fly" PLC's, you may get the boys figuring out if the "two knots a night" routine needs revamping.

[Eagle92]

qwazse brings up a good point. As soon as you get a group of leaders going, they move on. And this can cause problems. Saw this happen with the OA chapter I worked with.

 

 

The key is to get the older youth working with the younger youth, teaching them skills AND training them to take over when the time comes. Instill in the younger guys a sense of giving back to the troop. That's what happened with my troop, and they were going strong until Katrina. That messed things up some.