Banned Items on Camping Trips

[OldGreyEagle]

So, when the scout sees the kinetic powered battery charger in Scouting magazine and asks why the troop bans electronics if the BSA advertises technology to charge batteries

 

What is the response? Because I said so? Because the adults say so?

 

And when a youth reminds us that the Troop is supposed to be boy lead, what is your answer?

 

http://digital.scouting.org/scoutingmagazine/current/resources/index.htm

 

Check pages 8-9

 

looks cool, doesnt it?(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

[Eagle007]

I would have to ask the scout why they find it necessary to bring the electronics along in the first place. Again, I don't give a dirty diaper until it becomes a problem (loud music, disrupting the activiy, lost, stolen, broken or device needing charged. And when it becomes a problem then it becomes my problem. When that happens watch out!

[Twocubdad]

OGE -- I tell them the same thing as when they ask if they can wear BSA blue jeans with their uniforms.

[evmori]

OGE,

 

Just because the BSA has an ad for a product in one of their magazines doesn't mean it is required on campouts or anywhere else.

[OldGreyEagle]

that the charger is not part of the uniform? and you guys hike in full field uniform?

 

didnt say the charger was required, not sure how you got required out of what I posted, just the reasoning for not allowing them on a campout?

 

DO you not allow them to have facebook accounts either?

[Oak Tree]

OGE,

 

I'd say that the BSA doesn't ban them, but our troop does.

 

I could also say that you could use the tool for recharging GPS batteries, or camera batteries, or flashlight batteries, or something that we do allow.

 

I don't think the ad is a show-stopper. There are all kinds of ads in Boys Life that we don't use.

 

 

[Eagle732]

Gotta be 13 to sign up for Facebook.

[Twocubdad]

No, OGE, what I would tell the boy is there are all sorts of things in Boys' Life, Scouting and on the shelves at the Scout Shop which aren't appropriate for our troop's program. There are articles about units which build their program around playing soccer most of the year. We don't do that. There are constantly articles and promotions about selling popcorn. We don't do that either. While it's trendy and hip for BSA to include electronics in every issue of Boys' Life, our unit doesn't agree that needs to be part of our program either.

 

Scouting is set up with many options local units may or may not include. Decisions on what is and is not include in our troop are made by a number of groups and individuals including the Scouts, their parents, the PLC, the Scoutmaster, the troop committee, our COR and the chartered organization and BSA itself -- ALL of which have a role in determining what our troop progam looks like.

 

When the boy reminds me the troop is supposed to be boy led, I will tell him youth have an opportunity to lead. Leadership means convincing and motivating others to follow you. The method of youth leadership does not mean the Scouts have singular control over unit policy. It doesn't mean everyone else automatically follows their lead. Like real life, everyone has a boss, a board of directors, shareholders, customers, voters or spouse they have to satisfy.

 

Scouting gives the youth far greater latitude in running their program than just about anything else they are involved in. But that doesn't mean they have total control or final say. The boys want to vote on Eagle candidates? No, advancement policy belongs to BSA. The PLC votes to paint the scout hut flat black with red trim? Nope, church property committee. Take the whole troop to a Chemical Romance concert? Not with this Scoutmaster.

 

Several years ago it was decided that we would not allow electronics at troop functions, with certain exceptions. If the Scout feels a change in that policy is warranted, he is more than welcome to LEAD the effort to change it. If he can come up with an acceptable alternative and convince the other stakeholders of its merits, the policy can be changed.

 

You want to take the lead on changing the policy, go for it.

[Alabama Scouter]

As a SM, I don't really understand the aversion to sheath knives. I decided long ago that this was not the hill I wanted to die on, so I live with the consensus decision.

 

But what we (SM and Troop Committee) do ban is electronic devices and cell phones.

They are a distraction.

They cause strife in the troop and patrols.

They lead to stratification and disharmony.

They stifle conversation.

 

 

I don't allow them in my truck when we travel. Others in our troop do, but the scouts in my truck speak to one another (and me) and have a good time.

 

We had a parent show up at midnight to pick up a homesick kid, without any warning or a "by your leave". He had snuck a cell phone in and called his mom.

 

I had a scout call a parent because he had a wet sleeping bag. I had three spares in my truck.

 

One of the methods of scouting is adult association. A wet bag or feeling homesick is a good way to get them to talk to an adult, wouldn't you agree? Not to mention not having to bother parents to drive 2 hours one way in the middle of the night for no good reason. A cell phone short circuits that scout/adult conversation. Adult have cell phones for emergency use, so safety is not the issue.

 

A radio that everyone can listen too is one thing. An Ipod with ear buds is another.

 

 

 

[OldGreyEagle]

I am sorry if this sounds antagonistic, but that may be because it is

 

if your PLC says no electronics on outings, I can see and understand that and respect it as the youth imposed the rule

 

If its the adults that say no electronics on outings, then I don't understand it. Well, yes I do understand it, just don't be calling yourself a boy lead unit

 

Alabama, (I feel compelled to add "21 votes for Underwood", and a shiny dime who identifies that reference)

perhaps scouts in your troop don't feel real comfortable in talking to the guy who doesnt let them have cell phones or other electronics and would rather suffer wet sleeping bags and homesickeness that talk to the guy with OFS

 

I am not saying you are that guy, but could you be percieived by the scouts that way? Have you told them you have 3 spare sleeping bags in case someones gets wet? Do they know you understand homesickness and will talk to them about it in supportive terms, and not derogatory?

 

I am not saying you would, please, I am not accussing you of anything, I am trying to communicate perhaps the person the youth perceive is not nearly as nice as the person who is

[Beavah]

Yah, hmmmm....

 

That's a pretty dark interpretation there, OGE.

 

Now, maybe a better notion would be to educate than ban. Callin' mom at midnight for a wet sleeping bag is a bit like calling 911 because yeh stubbed your toe. That's somethin' a lad (and mom) needs to learn.

 

Still, having watched many youth dutifully be lost in texting or facebook posting or private music while they are with other people, I reckon that there's some need to teach courtesy. And young folks or even young leaders aren't automatically courteous, eh? If yeh have a longstanding troop with solid youth leaders yeh can leave it to them to police their own. But if yeh don't yet have youth leaders who have learned such things themselves, then I reckon there's a place for adults to step in.

 

I can particularly see the merits of a "ban" if it's a "no until you've proven you can handle it" sort of thing. Kinda like the Tech Chit idea. And to be honest, if it were just phones and music, I think prohibiting them wouldn't hurt anything. Just relieves the youth leaders of an annoyance so they can focus on other stuff. Problem these days is that the phone is also the wristwatch, alarm clock, GPS, camera, portable field guide to edible plants and Scout Handbook. With that being the case, the bans become silly, and we just have to teach 'em how to use the tool properly.

 

Beavah

 

[Alabama Scouter]

OGE, not taken in a harsh way at all.

 

Like all adult leaders, I suppose I and our TC have struggled with boy lead.

The parents have a harder time than the boys (and one or two leaders, I might add).

 

I guess the question of which I know the book answer is, what are the bounds of boy lead? (GSS, safety, etc.). I'd like your opinion, OGE, on this point, and Beavea, too.

 

I've seen more than a few times what electronics does on an event. I know, too, that there is ZERO conversation in a vehicle if Ipods and smart phones are allowed. Pretty much same thing around the camp fire, too.

 

So I'll take the hit at this point of not being boy lead. That's fine. IMO, we're a better troop because of it.

 

Tell you what I'll do. I'll bring this up at our next PLC and give you all a report back on what they say. (We just had one, so it'll be a few weeks).

 

AS

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Eagle732]

If the boys had it there way everyone would have a cell phone but no cell phones allowed in out camp except in certain circumstances.

 

Problem is most phones have cameras and many have internet access. All we need is a Scout taking an inappropriate picture, say another boy changing clothes or in the bathroom, and sending it out to everyone. This is not a far fetched theory since it happened last year at our summer camp (not while we were there). Scout pokes his phone under the bathroom stall door and snaps a picture. I understand it raised quite a ruckus when it was reported and the local constable showed up. Apparently no charges were filed but it could have got ugly.

 

Boy led is fine but we're dealing with 11 to 17 year olds who, in many cases are not mature enough yet to make certain decisions. This is why we have adult leaders.

[OldGreyEagle]

When the PLC plans a campout, what do they plan? We are going to the Camp and camp? Do they break it down from there? Recognizing that there is flexibility in the schedule, do they know what the campout will contain?

[Eamonn]

As I have posted many times I'm not in favor of banning things.

I do at times point out why taking some things is not such a good idea. More often than not the person will take the hint and decide not to take it.

We have at times talked about meals.

While I of course am a big fan of the full English /Irish Breakfast. The truth is that other than the odd Sunday I leave the house after just two cups of coffee. Most of the Scouts say that when they do eat breakfast, it's only a bowl of cold cereal. Some Scouts say that they have never eaten a cooked breakfast at home ever.

This makes me wonder why a cooked breakfast at camp is so very important? I'm not saying that its not nice, just not really needed.

While I'm not a fan of long lists of what is and what isn't allowed. I can and do see that these lists are a useful tool for parents and can save them a lot of fuss and bother.

Very often I really do think that these lists have more to do with what the adults might feel about them than any real reason.

That isn't to say that there are times when these rules do make sense.

Back when I first joined Scouts the Troop (The SM) Had a rule that we were not allowed to wear socks till lunch time.

His (The SM) Thinking was that the socks got wet with the early morning dew and you ended up with wet feet all day.

I still don't wear socks when I first get up at camp!

Back in the day we did have a problem with Boom Boxes, some of these had more bass than was good for you. Thankfully they were very hard on batteries and then along came the Walkman.

 

While I know that those who are hard-line "No electronic devices" are going to stick by their guns. I think that we are very close to the day when cell phones and smart phones are going to just be the norm. I'd sure hate a Lad to quit Scouts over a cell phone.

Maybe rather than a list of what is and what isn't allowed, it might be better if we remained flexible and looked at each activity and the merits of allowing or not allowing whatever.

This seems like a good task for the PLC.

While maybe an i-pod might be OK on a hike, it might not be such a good idea on a canoeing trip.

 

Eagle92,

Back when I did the Duke of Edinburgh Award (I have Bronze, Silver and Gold Awards.) We carried an emergency 10p to use in a public phone box. - No one had even heard of cell phones!

Being as we were in the middle of nowhere we might have been better off with a homing pigeon!

Eamonn