Should Troops Limit the Number of New Scouts?

[Cubby's Cubmaster]

Building from my related post..."Can a Troop Be Too Big to Run the Patrol Method?"...

 

If a troop is concerned about becoming too big for it's facilities, gear, resources, adult leadership and ability to maintain a quality program, do such troops restrict the number of new scouts allowed to join? If so, how do they select who is in and who is not? (This is a similar issues as the college fraternity 'Rush' selection process.)

 

Regards,

CC

[Stosh]

My troop is a BB in a boxcar. We have so much room it's pathetic.

 

Yet the other troop nearby (used to be an ASM there) doesn't have enough chairs to pack them in and sit them down. Their annual attrition is huge. At least half the troop each year departs. They leave their application open to any and all boys and basically the cream of the crop end up staying. (Actually it's the boys who's parents seem to hang around the most). It is common to have 45 boys on the charter with 15-20 showing up for meetings, but no one has ever said the boy can't join.

 

The pattern repeats itself every year. 20 boys in January, jumps to 40 right after B/G, and by the time January rolls around again, they're back down to 20.

 

Stosh

[moosetracker]

I loved this statement by a troop leader I met.. I think this is truely the spirit of scouting.

 

"Our Troop is as large as we need or want it to be. We are currently helping our neighboring troop who has had a hard time growing, improve their program, so that both our troops offer excellent programs, and scouts will be as happy to go to their troop as ours."

 

[thriftyscout]

I would have a difficult time limiting the number of new Scouts. We have 21 boys starting between September and November(6 recruited, 15 bridging). We had 30 on our roster (about 25 active) at the end of the summer. It will be a challenge but I would rather work that out than turn a boy away.

[qwazse]

Limiting the numbers isn't the solution. Fact is, we need a lot more units.

 

My crew has 42 on the roster. My jaw will drop if I see more than 8 at tonight's meeting. Main problem: we are so "general interest" that few will make the meeting/prep part of the program a priority.

 

Now if we were three crews: with an advisor for shooting sports, one for skiing/aquatics, one for backpacking, I bet we could split off and triple our numbers no problem.

 

Granted the dynamics for 14 - 20 year olds are different than 11 - 18. But, unless all 180 kids knocking at your door are from single parents, there should be enough leadership (and dissention?) to spin off a new unit.

 

But, you need a CO that really wants to house that program over a long haul. Otherwise, like Beevah said in the other thread, it'll fizzle.

 

 

[JerseyScout]

I could never turn a kid away, especially as our troop gets half of our kids from word of mouth. Word-of-mouth kids are obviously interested in being with their friends more than being in Scouts as a whole. Our troop has more than doubled in size in two years to about 35 kids (14 to 20 on each trip, depending which sports season it is). 35 kids is the size of a large class of 5th graders, and is very managable for me, I am still well within my comfort zone.

 

Ten years ago, this troop had over 100 kids in it with a very similar program to the one in place now. I remember having 50 to 60 kids on camping trips. I figure that we'll cross that bridge when (and if) we get to it.

[Beavah]

Yah, each troop has a "natural" size, eh? Dictated by its program and what the adult leaders can handle before some scouts and parents feel disconnected and drift away.

 

When a troop admits more scouts than its natural size, it's just like pouring a half gallon of water into a quart container, eh? The extra boys just spill out and are lost. What jblake describes is very, very common.

 

So I think it's best if a unit recognizes that sort of thing to encourage some boys or dens to look at another troop in the area, or even to help 'em start a new troop. Most successful unit startups happen that way.

 

What I do think is a shame is when scouters who really aren't successful at keeping more than 20 active scouts recruit an additional 20 in order to be "open to all" or some such, and then just lose most of 'em over the first year.

 

Generally speakin', most troops that do recognize this and "like" their current size handle things just by reducing their active recruiting.

 

Beavah

[Eagle732]

"Our Troop is as large as we need or want it to be. We are currently helping our neighboring troop who has had a hard time growing, improve their program, so that both our troops offer excellent programs, and scouts will be as happy to go to their troop as ours."

 

Not much of that Scout Spirit around here. There's two troops within 12 miles of here with membership of at least 80 each. There's also 3 troops with less than 16 scouts. I've never heard of anyone from the mega troops offering to help. I'd like them to just send me contact info on the ones they loose. Maybe I'll ask and see what kind of answer I get.

[ChaiAdventure]

We have a solid program and know our limits. We have absolutely turned boys away FROM OUR PROGRAM and referred them to other nearby programs. Scouting didn't lose the boy, we simply populated a program that could handle the addition.

[BadenP]

To follow up on Beavah's post, If a troop can not keep 20 boys active because of lack of leaders or a poorly run program then it is time for the CO to step in and find new leadership, there is no excuse for a troop to turn away any boy. The troop is too big, whatever that number is, is usually the reason given and yet I have seen troops of 60+ boys run smooth and efficent programs, no one left behind, why, because they allow the boys to run the program as scouting is supposed to be run. Usually it is in an adult controlled and run unit that the number issue even comes up, and it usually in these units that the numbers show large numbers of inactive or dropouts each year. I am willing to bet that those leaders who turn away boys each year is because those units have become so insulated, elitist, and privatized that they don't even realize it. With the continuing drop in boy scout numbers and troops nationwide are we leaders willing to say NO to a boy who really wants to be a scout?

[Beavah]

With the continuing drop in boy scout numbers and troops nationwide are we leaders willing to say NO to a boy who really wants to be a scout?

 

I hear where BadenP is comin' from, but I just come at it a different way. My answer to this question is "Yes" we should be willing to say "No" if we don't honestly have the resources (human and material) to do a good job for the boy. In the case of a single troop, there are a lot of other troops out there. In da case of no troops that can support a lad, there are a lot of other youth programs out there. Shoving him in a Scouting unit that won't do a good job for the lad isn't doin' him a service.

 

I also don't think yeh are ever goin' to see a CO step in and toss leaders just because they only seem to be able to manage a solid troop of 20 rather than 60. Nor would I encourage that approach, eh? Some folks just like the feel of small programs, like jblake mentions in da other thread. They don't want to get bigger, or they don't have the skills to do that bigger-groups thing. It doesn't suit 'em. And odds are just as likely if we took that approach that we'd kill the troop of 20 rather than create a successful troop of 60.

 

So I'm just fine with small units serving kids. Heck, our national average troop size is only 14.

 

Now, da flipside is that when we see that, we have to try to build programs to meet the boy's needs, eh? As a Scoutmaster, if yeh are directing boys away, yeh have to step up and find 'em another troop, or partner up and help start a new troop. Yeh even get a knot for that. As a district, when yeh see this goin' on, that's when yeh look to starting a new unit in that service area. Those are probably the only good times to start a new troop, not when da DE needs an extra unit to make his annual numbers.

 

Beavah

 

 

[Mike F]

To answer Cubby's question, yes, the troop I serve limits recruiting to keep our numbers at about 33-35 scouts.

 

We do it by putting out the word how many we have room to take. Those who are interested find us early. It's not a Frat Rush process (or don't think so - never experienced that), but I have recommended a few guys check out another specific troop if I think it will be a better fit for him. If they come back a week or so later, we've held the spot for them.

 

We're blessed to have 7 troops in our immediate vicinity, so there are lots of options. Every boy has a unique personality as does every troop. When they're a good match, the boy is going to be happier and more likely to stick around.

 

Our retention is very high. We've only had one scout drop out of scouting in the last year. We already have our "limit" for the Spring because we have 3 brothers joining and they'll push us over the brink.

 

Having said all that, when that "just one more" boy shows up the week of his crossover and has his heart absolutely set on joining our troop, we always make room for him.

 

A reasonable question is WHY? There are multiple reasons:

1. Facility - we already max out our CO's available space.

2. BP's recommendation on troop size.

3. Many things can be summed up as "we know our limits" as ChaiAdv wrote (which is also essentially what BP said in his discussion about troop size).

 

I have served a mega-troop with 135 scouts and it is not my desire to do so again.

http://www.entertonement.com/clips/rnhqrfsfzd--Know-his-limitationsClint-Eastwood-Harry-Callahan-Magnum-Force-

 

 

[Cubby's Cubmaster]

Great responses!

 

Let me focus the question...if you HAD to restrict the number of new scouts entering your troop, how would you do it?

 

Let me take a stab at an answer, accept W2s from my charter organization's pack first. Next, pick whole dens where there is solid adult leadership and commitment in place. Accept single scouts to round out patrols based on already having friends in the troop or another strong tie-in. Of course, I'd recommend to scouts not joining to join other troops. (In my career as cubmaster, I once had to turn a cub scout to another pack as the Bear den he wanted to join was already at 14 with a stressed out den leader. I really hated doing it and the scout didn't stay with it as he really wanted to be with his friends in our pack. A year later, during fall recruiting, he joined our pack as several openings came and loved it.)

 

Regards,

CC

[qwazse]

I think the answer depends on the number coming down which pipe ...

 

If your local cubmaster says all 14 of his tigers from 5 years ago stuck with it and want to cross over into your troop, I would call a neighboring troop and ask if they could try to recruit some of these boys. Remember past performance does not predict future results, so these boys may be ready go separate ways once they see their options.

 

If a half-dozen boys in the jr. high decide they want to be in scouting, I'd talk to your best ASM and MC, along with JASMs and SPL, and see if they want to start a new troop. Find a worthy CO, transfer three of your best youth to it, and sign up half of the newbees to your troop (now that you have a few openings) and half to the upstart. I think that's the history of how my childhood troop started.

[OldGreyEagle]

The Troop of my youth was quite the happening group. The Troop was expanding past the space limitations of the church that sponsored us and beyond the pool of adults that was volunteering.

 

The Troop committee hatched a plan. Please recognized this was circla 1970, First we were Troop 65 the Troop placed a cap of 65 scouts and had a waiting list, first come first served. Then the Troop required at least one adult in the scouts family to work on the Troop Committee in some fashion. There was some leniency for "special circumstances" ie single parents but back then it wasnt an issue, Having single parents that is.

 

The Scouts then had attendance requirements, remember it was 1970, not near the present time but the COmmittee's thought was if you didnt want to attend troop meetings and functions, they had a list of youth who did. It stayed that way for 3 years and then the crest rode down, but the logic stayed with me. Not sure how it would work today, but it has some things you may consider