SPL AND ASPL IN PATROLS ?

[sevie11]

Do the SPL and ASPL go into Patrols ? If not what do they do during the meeting after ther opening when they split up into the patrols. We only have 2 Patrols ?

[UCEagle72]

Normally, the SPL and any ASPLs have enough to do in planning for subsequent meetings, setting up games / contests, that they don't attend a patrol meeting, unless they are there to "see how things are going."

 

[Crew21_Adv]

sevie11,

 

Greetings!

 

That may all depend on the dynamics of your troop.

 

They will usually need to be counted in for groceries and menu for campouts, during patrol corners.

 

If you have a very young troop. The SPL/ASPL may need rank advancement as well. If they are Life and Eagle, they may be better at leading advancment training during patrol corners. If you have an interactive game (or inter-patrol activity) to re-inforce the skill learned. They shouldn't be left out of the educational fun.

 

So it depends on their maturity. How many instructors, troop guides that you have, and more details. For a large troop, they may be free to roam and conduct business, dues, backpack inspections, etc. But if you only have 2 patrols (about 16 Scouts), I would include my SPL/ASPL into the patrol corners.

 

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

[Eagle92]

Every troop is different. As others have posted, the SPL and ASPL may be running around with their heads chopped off doing things Sometimes they may be working with the younger guys.

 

In my troop growing up, the ASPL was the de facto PL of the Leadership Corps. So when we split into patrol corners, he got the other LC members together and they did their own thing.

[Stosh]

If one has a troop small enough to warrant an SPL/ASPL they are probably not needed and should be dropped. I would think the only reason one would have an SPL in a small troop is for advancement purposes and for me that is not proper justification. If one has two patrols, the two PL's could do whatever patrol coordination was necessary to function the troop. Once one has 4 patrols, that process may necessitate the use of an SPL.

 

If one has a troop big enough for an SPL, they probably are big enough to need a QM troop coordinator, Scribe for the troop, etc. and they could "patrol up" together and still find sufficient time to coordinate the other patrol activities.

 

If one needs an SPL/ASPL for an event and there are only two patrols, the senior of the two PL's could easily accommodate the attending of SPL requirements. He only has to report back to one other PL and accounts for about 5-10 minutes of effort, not enough to warrant a full-time SPL.

 

I presently have a very large patrol (11 members) and as soon as I recruit one more boy, we will divide into two patrols. I see no need to deplete either patrol by having an SPL/ASPL as part of that limited organization. Both patrols will work independently of each other and when needed the two PL's can coordinate any inter-patrol needs.

 

If the two patrols wish to attend two different summer camps, there is no need for an SPL to come in and tell one or the other they can't. If the older boys are told they cannot attend a high-adventure type of summer camp or the new boys are told they can't attend because they don't qualify for high-adventure, the boys in the patrols will seek out other summer activities that meet their needs. Neither option is conducive to a well-run troop. If there are 4 patrols and there is a troop officers corps to assist them, then all 4 patrols can go to 4 different summer camps with the coordination efforts of the SPL, Scribe, QM, etc. helping them out.

 

I would never think it appropriate to have the troop officers within a patrol. The temptation is too great to offer favors for their patrol over the others.

 

If the SPL is doing all the planning, games, etc. for the patrols, then the PL isn't doing his job.

 

If the troop is troop method, then there of course is a need for an SPL to run the whole show, but if the troop is patrol method, then the PL is responsible for the operations of his patrol. BP liked the idea of 6-8 boys in a patrol because budding new leadership really can't handle more than that and run a decent program for them. To think an SPL can run a program of 15-20 boys simply isn't feasible and either the SPL is running the show and the PL's are not doing their job or the PL's are doing their job and the SPL is not necessary.

 

If the troop is big enough to warrant an SPL he doesn't belong interfering in the patrols, if the troop is small, then the SPL or PL's are in name only and not earning their POR requirements in my book.

 

Your mileage may vary.

 

Stosh

[sherminator505]

Wait for it...

[acco40]

The Scoutmaster Handbook depicts an organizational structure for both "large" and "small" troops. For both, the SPL and ASPL are NOT part of a patrol.

 

Think of it this way. A patrol has a patrol leader. The SPL becomes a "member" of that patrol. Who is now leading the patrol? The patrol leader leads the SPL? The SPL acts as the defacto patrol leader?

[sherminator505]

Wait for it...

[jr56]

Sounds like a good idea to me. Makes sense.

[The Blancmange]

Sherminator shouldn't be such a pessimist. Lots of people can have helpful advice on this topic. :-)

[Mike F]

I've seen it done such that SPL and ASPLs stayed in original patrols for meals and some activities, but it's a mistake.

 

Definitely need to keep senior leaders (SPL/ASPLs) out of PL's hair.

 

Senior staff tents in same area as SM Staff, eats with SM Staff, etc.

[VigilEagle04]

Mike F wrote: "Senior staff tents in same area as SM Staff, eats with SM Staff, etc."

 

I've seen it done this way, and I partially agree. But that's not the only route to take. Someone else mentioned the Leadership Corps. There can be a "patrol" of the troop youth leadership. This depends on how big your troop is. We used to have the rule that if you had a troop POR, you were in this patrol. One of the reasons for this was so a Scout would not have their POR responsibilities interfere with their patrol responsibilities. The biggest exception to this was the Troop Guide, who was in the new scout patrol. Anyway, this patrol of leaders would often cook for themselves, and tent together and what not. There were some trips where they ate with adults. There were also times where they would be split up, and would eat with patrols, rotating with each meal.

 

We always found the younger Scouts liked hosting the troop leadership for a meal. Since the leadership was usually older, the younger ones felt like it was a chance for them to show off in a sense. A smaller troop I was a part of only had two patrols, and the SPL and QM (those were the only two troop leadership positions we had) would trade off like this. One trip, one would be with patrol a, the other with b. The next trip, they'd switch. The trip after that, they'd eat with the leaders. They did have a JASM who always ate with the leaders as well, he was the only Eagle Scout, and was 16. He would spend most of his time with the other Scouts, but I can't blame him for eating with the leaders, lol.

[JMHawkins]

In my troop growing up, we had three "regular" patrols and one "older guys" patrol. The SPL was the PL of the older patrol, which had most of the 15+ year olds. That patrol functioned like a normal patrol as far as tents and food. The assumption was the older boys were experienced enough to handle troop leadership roles and still plan their one patrol stuff.

 

If you only have 2 patrols, then I think I like something akin to Stosh's setup, where the senior PL functions as the SPL (and I suppose the other PL functions as the ASPL). Essentially he's wearing two hats, but based on the Patrol Method, I'd say PL is his primary job.

[emb021]

There is some flexibility in troop organization to a degree. The number of patrols is going to dictate a lot of that.

 

If you have a small number of patrols (2 or 3?), do you really need an ASPL? I was a dual PL/ASPL, and really only stepped up to cover for the SPL when he was unavailable. In this case, your other youth leaders (scribe, QM, Librarian) remain in their patrols. The SPL would just eat with a patrol or with the adults.

 

If you have a larger number of patrols, then you could implement a 'senior patrol/leadership corps', which has the ASPL as their PL, and the various youth leaders (scribe, QM, librarian, instructors, etc) would be in that group. The SPL would eat with this group.

 

At the Jamboree, the 4 troop youth leaders (SPL, ASPL, QM, Scribe) along with the 4 adult leaders (SM & 3 ASM) all eat with the four patrols (1 youth & 1 adult each). You also see this at WB during some of the program. Depending on how many adults come along on a trip, you can do it that way, or have the adults eat separately.

 

 

[IM_Kathy]

with my son's troop the SPL and ASPL only eat with their patrols - though when my son was SPL he tried to get it to eat with the adults because he was the best cook in his patrol and the meals went down hill when he was too busy with his duties to cook.

 

with tents typically the SPL, ASPL, and troop QM all tent together - since the SPL picks those people they are usually people they get along with.

 

during meetings when we break into patrols for planning the SPL and ASPL are all running around helping as needed, making sure patrols know what meals they will need to be cooking, explaining activities.

 

when it's rank work it depends on what ranks the SPL and ASPL are - sometimes they are helping with a younger scout with their rank work, sometimes they are talking with a MB coun. working one of their badges.