So about 300 yards...

[Penta]

Okay, my sense of distance is never good, but I was just chewing on things...

 

And I just realized. While I *hear* about 300 feet between patrol campsites, I have trouble envisioning it in practice.

 

So I'm going to ask - are there any diagrams, etc. on the web that would show a notional troop camping arrangement using that method, and go into things like tent positioning, etc within the patrol campsite?

 

At the same time - just how big of a cleared area are we talking about?

 

I'm trying, I guess, to imagine if there's anywhere I can think of nearby that could ever even fit camping using that method, presuming a troop of even 3-4 patrols.

[OldGreyEagle]

who said the land would have to be cleared?

 

OOH OOH it is 300 feet, which is not the title of this thread which is 300 yards would be a bit much, then again if the area could accomodate it, why not?

 

Each piece of terrain would be unique, a one campsite plan fits all approach would seem to be unlikley

[qwazse]

Most conservancy lands and hiking trails leave that sort of room if they allow overnight camping at all. Even farmer's lots are big enough for the adults to camp at a distance from the boys.

 

For the sake of "leave no trace" I encourage my youth to camp in random clusters. Rows and grids leave footprints that can show up on arial photographs days after camp is broken.

 

So, the adults would be in one "cluster", the youth would be in another cluster (or clusters, if there are more than one) further down the trail/valley/tree break. My personal preference is to pitch my tent up hill from the youth so I can see all clusters. My other chaperon sets up on the opposite side of the valley (if it's not more than 200 yards wide).

 

This is the ideal. Obviously, we adjust accordingly for each site.

[Eagle92]

Very doable as my Brownsea 22 troop comprised 8 patrols and we were at a minimum of 300 feet away from each other,and in some cases a mile or more away from the nearest patrol. Now our guides may have been a bit closer, but we didn't know it as they stayed out of our way except when it was time to eat (we had to have a staffer as a guest) and for classes.

 

Grant you we had 1600+ acres to play on

 

With the JLT troop, we also had about 100 yards from each patrol, ok 2 patrols may have been 275', close enough for government work.

 

All joking aside, it is doable.

[Gary_Miller]

qwazse, "My personal preference is to pitch my tent up hill from the youth so I can see all clusters. My other chaperon sets up on the opposite side of the valley (if it's not more than 200 yards wide)."

 

Two adults camping on opposite sides of the valley could be a possible YP problem. To much of a chance of an adult being able to be alone with a youth.

[The Blancmange]

 

Two adults camping on opposite sides of the valley could be a possible YP problem.

No, it isn't. There is absolutely no way to read the current YP rules as preventing or discouraging something like this. The rules require two leaders on an outing. They do not require those leaders to be joined at the hip for the duration of the outing. The rules also prohibit one on one contact between one adult and one youth. That is not imlicated in the scenario described. (This message has been edited by the blancmange)

[Penta]

I mean feet, I say yards. Doh.

[Kudu]

Baden-Powell describes the setup as the Scoutmaster located in the center of a rough circle of Patrols so that the Patrol Leaders can hear him call.

 

Note that the Patrols are camped a football field apart from each other. The object is not just to separate one large cluster of Scout Patrols from the adults.

 

Object of Camping

 

So it results that Scouts' camps should be small -- not more than one Troop camped together; and even then each Patrol should have its own separate tent at some distance (at least 100 yards) from the others. This latter is with a view to developing the responsibility of the Patrol Leader for his distinct unit.

 

http://inquiry.net/patrol/traditional/100_yards.htm

 

Yours at 300 feet,

 

Kudu

 

[Penta]

Hm. Let me see if I have you right, Kudu...

 

Using numbers for each of 4 patrols and S for the Scoutmaster and any other adults, let me try to sketch out in ASCII art what you described looks like. Each line is 100 feet.

 

1

/|

2-S-4

\|/

3

 

Right? Wrong? [Edit: Uh, that comes out better in the text box than in preview. Imagine a circular/diamond-y shape...thing...]

 

The notion of 1 tent per 6-8 boys is sort of odd, to me. Wandering around outfitting sites on the web, I can find 4-person tents, but no bigger. And while I know English weather ain't great, somehow I don't find it really advisable in most of the US to sleep with no shelter beyond what you construct from the elements.

[Kudu]

Yes, evidently ASCII art is not WYSIWYG!

 

....1

.../ | \

2--S--4

...\ | /

....3

 

Each line = 100 yards

 

Penta writes:

 

The notion of 1 tent per 6-8 boys is sort of odd, to me. Wandering around outfitting sites on the web, I can find 4-person tents, but no bigger.

 

A dutiful historical reenactor would carefully fashion the Patrol tents out of canvas, and transport them with a "Trek Cart!"

 

And of course the Scoutmaster would summon the Patrol Leaders with his Kudu Horn

 

Large Patrol tents are more popular in the rest of the world where Baden-Powell's program was used. See, for instance:

 

http://inquiry.net/outdoor/winter/shelter/tents/ski_tour_tent.htm

 

I prefer Scout-owned two or three man tents. They require smaller patches of level ground, and can be transported in a backpack.

 

Yours at 300 feet,

 

Kudu

 

[Penta]

Thank you for correcting my art attempt, Kudu.

 

Thanks for the reference on the tents. Hm.

[GKlose]

I love the concept of 300 feet --

 

It reminds me of my troop, many years ago. A couple of times we did a Brownsea-style summer camp, on our own, in a county park in northern Michigan. Primitive camping. 300 feet? I'm not sure, because I never visited other patrol sites. At least that much, maybe even up to 1/2 mile. At least 1/2 mile from the "base camp" where adults camped, and our primitive trading post existed, and was a meet-up spot for merit badge instruction, starts of hikes, that sort of thing. Commissary and water jug drop-off (an adult would load empty water containers into a truck and refill them for us somewhere else -- I'm not sure where; another adult made daily trips into town to buy groceries and ice). I think it is the thought of 300 feet (separation, for independence and true adventure) that is important, rather than the actual distance or layout.

 

Of course, as everyone points out, there are always exceptions. Camporees are usually much more densely populated than 300 feet would support. But if all of a unit's camping is camporees, state parks and other small group campsites, with ad-hoc patrols, so that you're really talking adult-run troop method, wouldn't it make sense to start branching out for the true adventure?

 

Guy

[Eagle92]

Kudu,

Thanks making me relive the nitemare that is putting up 10 man marquee tent, LOL. Yep in Europe the patrol tent is popular. In some of the tents thet do almost everything inside them, including cooking!

 

That said I admit I got a 7 man "condo" and I hate that sucker. BUT it was a Valentine's gift from the wife, and the only tent she will camp in when the kids are with us. Otherwise I love my 11yo 2man backpackign tent.

[qwazse]

E92: We must be in parallel universes. I love when my wife comes as a chaperon, but it also means hauling the 6-man instead of my backpacking "coffin practice" tent.

 

GM: We run a co-ed unit, and the Mrs. can't backpack. So bunking too close to my chaperon might raise other "'semblance of evil" issues. Beside's I tend to be more like TB and just follow the rule and not overthink the issue. Fact is, predatory behavior works around tenting configuration and the best strategy is to keep the youth together and adults at a distance -- however the land allows it.

 

Regarding applying this in a co-ed venturing situation. I really don't specify how to cluster. But, I haven't had young men asking to pitch right beside young womens' tents. They tend to naturally set up on opposite sides of the adults from each other.

[bnelon44]

Was 100 yards ever advocated by the BSA? If so, what are the references?

 

Also,I realize B-P suggested 100 yards in an Outlook article. Did he put it down as a "rule" in any of his handbooks? If so, what are the references?(This message has been edited by bnelon44)