Patrol outings

[The Blancmange]

 

6. Safety rule of four: No fewer than four individuals (always with the minimum of two adults) go on any backcountry expedition or campout.

This is the first mention of a backcountry outing, although I suspect the MC may be applying an overly-broad definition of backcountry. The fact that the rest of your troop will be camping within 2 miles suggests to me that this is not a remote area where evacuation in case of an emergency might be difficult. That seems to be the type of backcountry that the rule speaks to. This is another shortcoming of the rules; an important term that could reasonably be subject to different interpretation is not defined.

 

If the older patrol goes out on its own without proper adult supervision and something should happen you not only open yourself up to possible lawsuits but it also will extend to every registered member of the committee.

This excuse is a cop-out from someone who understands neither the law nor the BSA liability coverage. In order for a Scouter to be held liable for an injury, the injured person would have to identify some fault (negiligence) on the part of the person from whom they are claiming damages. In the case of a committee member, that is a real stretch. Even in your case as SM, it sounds like you have gone to great lengths to make sure they are ready for this. But none of that matters, because the agreement that your chartered organization has with the BSA obligates BSA to defend and indemnify all of you for any claims of this sort. I believe the first layer of coverage, for which BSA is self-insured, is $10 million. I am sure there are other layers of excess coverage over that. The prospect of a volunteer or CO ever being obligated to pay anything for defense costs or to satisfy a judgement stemming from a program activity is not a legitimate concern. (This message has been edited by the blancmange)

[Kudu]

The current SM, SPL, and PL handbooks all have the exact same wording:

 

Patrol Activities

 

Most Patrol activities take place within the framework of the troop. However, patrols may also set out on day hikes, service projects and overnighters independent of the troop and free of adult leadership as long as they follow two rules:

 

The Scoutmaster approves of the patrol activity

The patrol activity does not interfere with any troop function.

 

A patrol activity without adult supervision should be allowed only when it has been thoroughly planned well within the patrol members levels of training and responsibility. If the Scoutmaster has any doubts, he should encourage the patrol to reconsider its plans, or should assign adults to accompany the patrol during the activity in question.

 

That being said, it is (or was) only a matter of time before "overnighters" will be deleted in the printed publications, because we no longer offer official position-specific training for Patrol Leaders on how to do that.

 

If we took position-specific training away from BSA Lifeguards and replaced it with the same EDGE theory we teach Patrol Leaders, then it would only be a matter of time before leadership experts would not allow Boy Scouts to swim in water over their heads either, and rightly so.

 

CA_Scouter writes:

 

I am a failure as a SM.

 

You fight the good fight.

 

William "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt wrote:

 

"Patrols are ready to go hiking and camping on their own just as soon as the Patrol Leader has been trained and the Scouts have learned to take care of themselves...It should be your goal to get your Patrol Leaders qualified for hike and camp leadership at an early stage." (Scoutmaster Handbook, 5th ed, page 118).

 

It is ironic that leadership experts in the national committees are calling for the official end of his Patrol Method to coincide with the BSA's corporate centennial.

 

Again, it all depends on who at your Council office answers the call. My local DE still allows tour permits for Patrol camping without any adult supervision. As others have pointed out, your trip has two-deep leadership in the general area.

 

Yours at 300 feet,

 

Kudu

 

 

[Eagle92]

Kudu,

I have one humble favor to ask. Please do not use the BSA Lifeguard program and EDGE in your examples. BSA Lifeguard has already been handicapped by the removal of boating rescues and 'going without support" rescue methods, to the point that al it is is the BSA's version of ARC Lifeguard ( heck in my council those going through the program get both ARC and BSA certs), and not the separate, more difficult program it once was. Mentioning EDGE might give folks ideas.

[Stosh]

Gotta love this level of paranoia. Everyone is so concerned about leaving minors alone to fend for themselves that it has gotten ridiculous. Prior to high school graduation my buddies and I camped without adult supervision all the time. We were all good woodsmen and could take care of ourselves. And that's the key. We knew what we were doing!

 

The prevalent paranoia is heading onto a slippery slope and eventually will run headlong into Youth Protection issues. How can we continue to hold their hands at every turn and not run into YP problems?

 

There is plenty of training in the BSA literature to insure our boys are properly prepared to go out and enjoy the woods sans-adults. Only those who are rushing through that training or not properly addressing the requirements will ever be affected by this paranoia. The boys by the time they are first class should be able to go out on their own. They have woodsman skills, first aid, camp life skills and have been trained. If not, one needs to go back and review this training and/or the troop's training program because something isn't right.

 

In our society we have picked this magical number out of the air of 18 to say that the day before your 18th birthday you cannot go camping with the BSA alone, but the next day you can. What kind of training program is that?

 

Stosh

[UCEagle72]

I taught YP at a troop I serve the other night - 16 total adults - some volunteers, some parents (who the troop is working on to become MBC).

 

I capped my presentation with a discussion on Patrol Outings ... parents got noticeably uncomfortable, the CC came around the table to try and stare me down, the SM, he stood back, and just smiled.

 

As Kudu has already said ... when the PL and the Patrol Members have the proper skills ... not something I would do with a Patrol of 1st year Scouts.

 

I also mentioned GBB's message on badges of rank ... and how these are skills that are always demonstrable ...

 

"The badges which accompany his advancement and which the Scout wears on his Uniform are not to show that he has "passed certain tests." There should be no past tense implied! On the contrary, each badge cries out "I can, right now and here!"

 

The badge of rank worn by a Scout is like the M.D. sign on a doctors door. It advertises to the world that "Here lives a man who is prepared to help sick people." So must the First Class Badge advertise to the world that here is a boy who is qualified to help others as well as take care of himself. It is not to be considered a decoration, but rather a symbol of knowledge and ability.

 

Games and other activities that review the various Scout Requirements should be worked into the Troop's program continuously so that the Scouts will not "grow rusty" for lack of an opportunity to use and practice their knowledge and ability." (Handbook for Scoutmasters - Vol II, 3rd Edition, page 958)

 

[qwazse]

Folks, here's the bottom line: If you do not provide for patrols to plan and execute their own hikes and campouts with your approval, they WILL do it without your approval. And when they do, they will likely invite girls along, and someone will bring beer and smokes. In the process, they will "dumb down" their outdoor experience to the lowest physical and moral denominator.

 

They will do this outside of Scouting, and some (maybe all) of them will decide they don't need your troop anymore. Some others will take a trip that is well beyond what they can handle, and they will put themselves and their friends in harms way because they did not get that "third eye" to review and approve their plan.

 

So remind your CM's that the alternative to a well-planned independent youth outing is not a well-planned adult supervised outing. It is a poorly planned outing that may put the youth in your community at serious risk.