Hey Kudu Patrol method question or opinion

[Basementdweller]

In moving from a single Patrol troop to multiple patrols. How many adults should attend a camp out in your opinion???

 

We have a camp out going on this weekend and 13 adults and 14 scouts attending......It is out of whack in my mind......

[perdidochas]

Well, IMHO, as long as the adults leave the Scouts alone, what's the problem?

[Eagle92]

Does sound out of whack. BUT if the adults can keep from interfering withthe patrols, then I won't see a problem. that's the key: keeping the adults from interfering with the youth

[shortridge]

I know you didn't ask about this, but I'd focus more on the Scout side of the equation. With 14 Scouts, you barely have enough to make full functioning patrols, at 7 Scouts per. What happens if two from each patrol don't make it?

 

The appropriate number of adults depends largely on three things:

 

1. The relationships of the Scouts to the adults. Are they mostly parents tagging along to see how Junior is doing? Do they see a troop or patrol campout as a replacement for a father-son or mother-son bonding time? If the answer to either of those is yes, then you may have a problem. Make sure the adults know the score and how to behave. One way that can be acomplished is through ...

 

2. Training. What's the training level of these adults? Have they at least completed the basic online stuff, including YPT? Consider requiring those as a baseline for adult participation. The other factor to consider, of course, is ...

 

3. Youth experience levels. Moving from one patrol to two suggests that you've added a bunch of Scouts in a short period of time. Were they rising Webelos? Do they have Scouting experience before? What drew them to your troop? Are they 11-year-old newbies with no background in camping, more susceptible to being dominated by well-meaning parents? Or are they older Scouts who can politely tell a well-meaning adult to mind his or her own business?

 

An addendum to No. 1: You may still have a problem if the adults aren't parents. And I don't mean to suggest that all parents cause problems. Issues can certainly arise from the involvement of child-less volunteers who don't understand how Scouting is supposed to work, or who view an expedition as a personal vacation. If everyone knows the role they're supposed to play, problems can be greatly minimized.

[OldGreyEagle]

Oh boy, am I on shaky ground here but the answer is more or less obvious. You say you are moving from Troop method to multiple patrols so I assume (risky I know) you will have 2 patrols. Just keep the two patrols and the adults campsites separated by 300 feet (or as far as you can) and leave it at that. You can have as many adults as you want, just 300 feet from the patrols, which are 300 feet from each other

 

There is something to the distance thing you know(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

[Stosh]

My suggestion:

 

Each patrol have 6-8 members depending on the boy's choices. Let them work it out to those numbers. If they want 7 - 7, fine, if 6-8, that's fine too.

 

After 3 years of SM at my present SM position I have never had more than 3 adults along with as many as two patrols. Normally we have only two adults at any event.

 

This weekend the boys are going out with an ASM and his wife on a backpacking outing. The only time I had three it was a SM, an ASM and an extra adult skilled in canoe/kayak safety on a whitewater outing.

 

Stosh

[qwazse]

Establish the "old farts" patrol. Get them obsessed with cooking meals in their own patrol, and everything will be just fine. Make them think they have to be the model and their site has to outshine the boys' in cleanliness, camp gadgetry, and aroma of food.

 

The "distance rule" helps.

 

 

[SR540Beaver]

You need as many adults as it takes to transport the boys and equipment. If you have 40 boys going on a campout 150 miles away, 3 or 4 adults ain't gonna cut it. Once there, you let the boys do their program while the adults hang out in their area.

[RichK]

Without knowing why all are attending, I would say too many. With extra adults around, it diffuses focus. Not sure what the political solution is . . my son just moved up to Boy Scouts and I've noticed most parents seem to hang out for the weekly troop meetings even. The Scouts seems like an adult club sometimes.

 

Rich

[Kudu]

Shortridge, OGE, and jblake47's replies are all good first posts.

 

The Patrol Method is all relative:

 

1) 14 is usually too many for one Patrol but the Patrols do not have to be equal. The important thing is: Who gets along? Who can lead?

 

2) I agree with OGE of course: The Real Patrol Method is based on distance. This spring I worked with a Troop that had NEVER used the Patrol Method before (except for separating tables of note-taking Scouts at indoor meetings). We just happened to have three "old-school" BSA Scouters on this campout, so we separated the Patrols a football field apart. Two 13 year-old Scouts supervised the setup of their respective ad hoc Patrols just fine, while the senior Scouts were out setting up a GPS candy treasure hunt.

 

BUT

 

a) I picked the junior leaders and

 

b) The three adult leaders had all been in Real Patrols when we were Scouts.

 

3) As far as too many adults it depends on personalities. Yes, 300 feet between the adults and the Scouts, and 300 feet between the two Patrols should solve most of your problems, but you better have solid natural leaders in control of those Patrols! If you decide to teach "democracy" and "controlled failure" instead, then you will likely need to decrease the distances to the point where the 13 adults will tend to take over

 

So answer Shortridge's questions!

 

Yours at 300 feet,

 

Kudu

 

[Basementdweller]

Far as adults go, We have a SM that can be the adult scout and if you don't remind him that the boys are supposed to be doing the work will just do it himself. The one ASM brings a portable mansion and spends the weekend watching hulu on his droid. I am the other ASM.

 

The rest range from 3 Type A's my son will be an eagle, thru the I just want to hang out with my son guys. Others may just be trying to sponge a weekend, The COR adult son, who is listed on the charter but only shows for camp outs and trips. We have a friend of the SM who also tags along, He is a good nature fellow, not much help.

 

The SM is taking one patrol's grubmaster and I am taking the other to the grocery Thursday night.

 

I would like the adults to cook separate and the Patrols to invite one adult each per meal at their campsite. But the SM is splitting the adults and each patrol gets 7 each....doesn't seems fair or right to me.

 

 

[Eagle92]

While I am normaly in favor of having the patrol invite guests, Maybe having all the adults eat together may save more headaches about who is eating with whom?

[Stosh]

13 adults and 14 boys??????

 

Why not just have an outing for parents and leave the boys home.

 

There's something seriously wrong with 13 adults going on an activity. It sounds like a tiger cub outing with that many adults. This is BOY scouts.

 

RickK might be new to the forum, but he saw through that pretty quickly.

 

And by the way, no adults eat with the patrols. I'm not walking 300' for any meal. Adults make their own and stay out of the patrol's business.

 

Stosh

[OldGreyEagle]

Sometimes I get so confused. In an organization that is run by volunteers and it seems like its the same volunteers that run everything, we are going to limit adult participation in the organization? For all the Troops which have outings hanging on the brink of cancellation because they can't assure 2 deep leadership I apologize for the mindset of "Hey Adult, we dont need you"

 

What an excellent opportunity to recruit new leaders, talk about positions in the Troop, District, Council even. I do not understand why we would curtail the enthusiasm of sdults any more than I would youth

[VigilEagle04]

When I was a youth, we often had quite a few adults along. We had around 4 ASMs for our troop of about 30-35, and then we had several Troop Committee members that would come along as well (they often acts as ASMs as well). The only time the adults had any interaction with the youth for meals was when we would be doing something in the evening, and come back to camp to find a troop dessert made. The SPL, ASPL, Scribe and Quartermaster were patrol-less scouts, and they split up between the 3 patrols. We often had a JASM or two, and they had the privilege of eating with the adults.

 

For the rest of the trip, the adults still primarily kept to themselves. Sure, they would wander around on occasion to see how things were going, but they had their "leader land", and pretty much just stayed there.