NYLT - Rethinking support...

[SMT224]

For years I have been a strong supporter of NYLT. I saw excellent results from Scouts attending 2001-2005. We were unable to send Scouts for a couple years due to schedule conflicts. We sent Scouts in 2008, 2009, and again this year. However, none of these Scouts came back as charged up as in the earlier years. I initially wrote it off to different personalities of those attending, but on speaking to the Scout who just came back from the course, I'm starting to wonder if it's the Scout or the NYLT.

 

On asking him what the NYLT course was like, he said it was mostly lectures on management techniques. He talked about some fun things they did on outpost, but seemed to have hard time putting what he learned at NYLT to use in his role as SPL in our Troop. When I asked him what he'd like to do differently in the Troop as a result of his NYLT experience, he said "nothing". I know our Troop is not that perfect.

 

What kind of experience have others had with NYLT lately? Does it seem like it's turned into little more than management lectures?

 

BTW, I dropped this rant into "Patrol Method" on purpose because I believe the SPL should specifically support the Patrols. And any training the SPL receives should help him focus on the Patrol Method. Not just manage the Troop.

 

[Stosh]

One of the real problems that is not being addressed in leadership training of today as it was in the past is: Management is only a small part of leadership. If that's all that's going to be taught, it could bode poorly for NYLT in the future.

 

I have had only a few boys attend NYLT and all have found it "not very useful."

 

I guess I'm not a big fan of that kind of money for such little results.

 

One of the major "mistakes" one makes in teaching management skills as leadership skills is that in the managerial world, all the subordinates one works with are paid for being there and they are there because they want to get paid. Take that dynamic away and replace it with volunteers and the whole playing field changes. Well, the game changed and the training didn't. Going to be tough to work that one through if they are teaching everyone to play football and on the day of the big game the coach shows up with bats and gloves.

 

Stosh

[Cubmaster Mike]

My son came back from NYLT as a participant a couple of weeks back. He had a great time and wants to be on staff. Families were invited to come up for the last evening for a banquet and the graduation ceremony. The boys on staff and many of the participants got up on stage during the banquet at the camp lodge and sang, chanted and danced loudly for the camp parents. I really enjoyed it.

 

Before NYLT I discussed participation with my son and another scout who I drove up to camp. I explained the rah-rah aspect and since my son is not a rah-rah type, I encouraged them both to let loose and sing, chant and dance as much as possible during camp. It makes camp fun. He took it to heart and had a great time. Another boy in his patrol did not want to sing and chant and well, his experience was not so good. Unfortunately it sopunds like he also brought down some of the patrol spirit.

 

Discussed that with my son. Yes, there are those who are self conscious and wont get into it as much. Its that way in our home troop. Told him to remember how much fun he had at NYLT and bring bck as much of it that he can. He can make it fun if he wants to put in the effort- you know, the leadership thing.

 

Lectures? yes he said they are there. Some long, some short, some he enjoyed some he did not. From his description that was as much a function of the presenter as well as the presentation.

 

CMM

[FScouter]

There is nothing in the NYLT syllabus about management. There's developing a vision, goals, planning, problem solving, EDGE, conflict resolution. All put into practice with hands-on outdoor activites. No management.

[Lisabob]

My son participated in NYLT last year at this time. He had a great time, learned a lot, came back with a bunch of new ideas he wanted to try to institute as SPL (several of which had to do with patrols acting more like patrols ought to act), "discovered" what boy leadership could mean, and has encouraged other scouts from the troop to sign up this year. I don't think it would be wrong to say that he found NYLT to be empowering.

 

Then again, I suppose it depends on what a person hopes to experience and gain, and where they are coming from. For boys from troops that already have very strong patrol focus and where "boy led" is at its best, maybe NYLT wouldn't be as memorable an experience. For boys from troops where those things are weak or lacking though, it could be a real eye opener into what's possible.

 

By the way: Hats off to Erie Shores Council for the great NYLT program my son participated in last year! Thanks, folks!(This message has been edited by lisabob)

[jhankins]

I hate to say it, but maybe NYLT isn't meant for every style of boy?

 

I also think it's in the implementation of the program, how closely the staff sticks to the syllabus, and how prepared and how much fun the staff has.

 

Before I judge NYLT's program though, I plan on staffing it at least once so I can get a feel for it on my own.

[Crew21_Adv]

SMT224,

 

 

Regarding the difference of your Scouts between 2001-2005 and then 2008 till present.

JLTC was the previous course, till 2005. It was same curriculum for Wood Badge For Boy Scout Leaders, which changed in 2000. The goal is the same, but the skills and practices may be somewhat different from a NYLT participant.

 

Now my troop has regularly sent Scouts to JLTC and NYLT. The results are routinely good, nothing dramatically exciting. THe graduates come back and do apply some leadership and PL and SPL.

 

Then a few years back, we had an newly elected SPL, for the first month and half of his SPL tenure, he thought he was gonna sit back and say "Start a Fire, Do KP, go do your patrol corners". This 15 y/o Scout thought he was going to be a laid-back manager. Then he attended NYLT. He had four months left on his SPL term, but my goodness. He led his PLCs, he led the troop meetings by communicating with the PLs, he worked with the SM/ASM to carry out a program with advancement. NYLT gave this young man a drive and initiative. He really got excited about Scouting, and served the troop as one of our best SPLs.

 

My troop has always had good support from NYLT graduates. We've always benefited from the course. Once, the troop really benefited from an NYLT graduate. NYLT has my endorsement.

 

At Roundtable I say, if you want a great pack, troop or crew, send an adult leader to Wood Badge. If you want a really great troop (and now crew) send your Scout to NYLT.

 

 

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21_Adv

[Eagledad]

>>I also think it's in the implementation of the program, how closely the staff sticks to the syllabus, and how prepared and how much fun the staff has.

[sheldonsmom]

I am rather uncomfortable with girls attending NYLT, which just happened in Kansas, I think. It is supposed to be for Boy Scouts not Venturing.

My son speaks highly of the training he received at NYLT but they only got half the course.

 

[desertrat77]

FScout, those subjects you mentioned all fall under the umbrella of management....

[FScouter]

Oh? Then define "leadership", and explain how leadership does not involve vision, problem solving, etc.

[Thomas54]

 

I think you were correct to put this in the patrol method.

 

Background: Our Troop picks up half of the cost for the scout to attend. NYLT in our council it is five nights/six days. One less than a typical summer camp.

 

For the last few years we have sent mainly 13 year olds at Star rank. And like SMT I expected more spark for the patrol method upon their return. I was disappointed. The way our elections run we have not had an SPL at 3 months into his tenure attend NYLT and then return with a vengeance. No direct comparison is available.

 

I think there a few things here. One if the troop's program isn't aligned with the patrol method and a strong PLC then coming back from NYLT with no place to practice these skills and the training is lost. I also believe that leadership skills such as Vision, Mission are lost on a 13 year old scout. Better to compare the ages of the scouts sent a few years ago then the training program.

 

Is does not harm the scout to attend but NYLT's contribution to the program is marginal at best. As for the scout himself, it contributes to his life skills on par with his first summer camp.

 

NYLT does not have the effect on the troop that I have always hoped it would. But the scouts due seem to take the PLC more seriously upon their return. We will continue to pay to send scouts to NYLT.

 

 

 

 

[jhankins]

Leadership and management are two different animals, but they can be combined and the lines blurred between the two by someone that can be effective in both roles.

 

Leadership is the process through which a person uses social influences to get someone to join in their efforts. Good leaders are inspirational and by their attitudes, actions and traits convince us that they are following the right road.

 

Management is the action(s) in which get the goals done that are set forth by those in leadership positions.

 

In the context of a troop, your SPL is your principal "leader," and his staff becomes his managers. Yet, that staff also has to have the qualities of a good leader to get those things done and to get people to work for them. See how they work together?

 

The great leader and writer, Max DePree said: "Leadership is much more an art, a belief, a condition of the heart, than a set of things to do."

 

He also said something akin to: "the first responsibility of a leader is to define reality." An SPL who can grasp that concept, teach the boys "This is the way it is, and how we're going to get there" is an incredible asset to a troop.

 

DePree also said something like: A leader, above all else, is a servant, and a debtor, for nothing he does succeeds without service to others."

 

It's really amazing to watch boys work when they get that "Aha!" moment and grasp that concept.

 

 

[NE-IV-88-Beaver]

sheldonsmom,

 

The current curriculum is designed for Boy Scouts and Venturing both. One of the main problems is making the lectures and examples relevant to both groups.

[Beavah]

Yah, I think like everything da curriculum amounts to only a small piece of the final product, eh? So much of training depends on da experience and dedication of the trainers and their personality, on the skills, background, and personalities of the participants, and a mess of other things. Like Eagledad says, not everybody can or should be a course director. Like Thomas 54 says, age 13 might be a bit young and inexperienced for the stuff.

 

I'll agree with SM224, though, that the curriculum is a bit heavy on some fad-ish and simplistic management theory. Same stuff F talks about as not being "management", but that you'll find in da bookstore "management" shelves . In small doses, when done well, that stuff can help a young lad or a novice adult get a handle on a thing or two. In larger doses or done poorly, not so much. There's a lot to be said for Kudu's critique.

 

I think too much of da management stuff wanders in for reasons others describe - the organization is top heavy in managers these days, and thinks in terms of workplace and employee management, not so much in terms of volunteers and kids and outdoor leadership. That's natural, eh? It isn't even all bad. But it does mean yeh need some really good course directors to make it work, and probably some brighter older boys who can handle da abstraction better than a 13 year old.

 

Beavah