district-level TLT?

[GKlose]

Do any of you have districts that do some sort of equivalent of TLT (or the old JLT)? Our council has week-long Brownsea 22 (the old syllabus) and NYLT offerings, but a question came up recently.

 

At a district event, I saw my Woodbadge SPL -- he asked me about one of my ticket items, which was to work on a troop-level training weekend for my troop's youth leaders (I've already sketched out an outline, and I'm planning on trying this out this coming September). He mentioned that it was something that his troop could use, and a nearby ASM from another troop, also a friend, mentioned that his troop could use the same thing. Then they asked me if I'd thought about doing something like this at the district level (so their troops could attend!).

 

So, not that I'm considering expanding the scope of my ticket item, but has anyone seen or done this sort of thing? Was it successful, or did it kind of fall flat? I'd love to hear any stories you might have.

 

Thanks--

Guy

[jhankins]

It requires the same effort to train 8 boys as it does to train 80-- in most respects

 

Our council offers council-wide TLT. They call it Cedar Badge. The course makes the rounds from district to district throughout the year. It's an all day affair with more fun and games introduced.

 

Over the years it's been modified little by little to include some hands-on application, too. Each troop forms its own leadership patrol and they work the room visiting youth leaders playing the roles involved in planning a campout -- so they walk through the process in a practical fashion.

 

It's more than the TLT syllabus requires, but it's popular. Each course usually has more than 75 boys. Last year we ran two in two weekends since we had 150 boys signed up.

 

The only thing I suggest when doing something like this is making sure the Scoutmasters are involved and have their past senior leadership help lead the course, especially if boys have been through NYLT. It's a great experience for everyone to see them in action.

[Eagledad]

>>The only thing I suggest when doing something like this is making sure the Scoutmasters are involved and have their past senior leadership help lead the course,

[Buffalo Skipper]

I strongly disagree. TLT should be handled on the troop level. It is the SPL, ASPL and instructors who should be delivering this training to the other scouts in your troop. There should be several youth trainers to handle the sessions. To deny your scouts the opprotunity to train other scouts by having a single SPL, for example, train ASPLs from 5 troops shorts the 4 ASPLs from other troops the needed interaction with their own SPL.

 

Taking this already weak and vague program and diluting it by making it a district or council "class" is like trying to flavor a bathtub full of water with one package of Kool Aid. If it was meant to be delivered on the District or Council level, it would have been called DTLT or CTLT. Do not go down this path.

 

My 2.

 

[GKlose]

Thanks, guys --

 

Skip, that's exactly what my first reaction was (I'm not seriously considering taking this project on -- I'm more worried about what to do at the unit level). But I'm still curious if anyone does make this work at the district or council level.

 

I don't want to be caught up in only seeing the roadblocks, but as you've pointed out, it has to be your troop's SPL working with his assistant(s), and with the troop's group of PLs, not some random mix of an SPL telling a bunch of unrelated PLs what to do.

 

So, allow me a "what if" scenario...what if you have an SM that isn't inclined to make sense of the watered down and vague program that exists. What if he were to sign up for, and bring his own SPL and the rest of the PLC to a weekend training session. What if that weekend session were limited to a small handful of troops. What if the watered down and vague program had some tangibles added to it. For example, the ASM friend that I talked to said that in his troop they've gone over the regular TLT module with their PLC, but they still don't get it. They don't know how to run patrol meetings, PLC meetings, plan troop meetings and outings. Could it work on the district level?

 

Guy

[Eagle92]

GK,

 

#1 Do you have a copy of the old BA22 syllabus, and can I have a copy? I went through the old course and I am dying to have a copy of the syllabus. PLEASE PM ME!!!! ( caps for begging not shouting )

 

#2 I did my troop level training this way back in the day. Don't remember the proper title, but the way it worked was as follows:

A. Day Long.

 

B. Divided into patrols with no one else form the same troop if possible.

 

C. While SMs were present and advised youth staff, BA22 graduates taught all sessions.

 

D. It was a round robin style with fixed stations and the scouts moving from place to place.

 

E. Instead of trained patch got a temp patch for the event.

 

 

[GKlose]

E92 -- I don't have a copy of it (and I'm curious about it too, because I went through the program myself, in 1976 -- woo hoo, All Out For Scouting!).

 

But, my oldest son (13/Star) is going through the program in a couple of weeks. I know the course director (BA22 SM) from my Woodbadge course. The other night, at a BA22 meeting, he held up the binder, and to me it looks like it is at least a couple hundred pages. I'll see if I can get a closer peek at it, and then ask him about copies.

 

Guy

[AvidSM]

I agree with Buffalo Skipper on this one. TLT needs to be taught at the troop level. There are some very troop-specific modules within TLT that teach the youth leaders where they fit into their own organization.

 

TLT only sets the framework for how a scout should be lead. The real lessons are taught by actually doing their job in the troop. The Scoutmaster reinforces what the boy has learned by coaching and mentoring.

 

I have taught TLT to scouts from two different troops. The other troop was not familiar with TLT and wanted to try it with us. We split into seperate groups when it made sense, for example the Stop-Start-Continue part of the course.

 

A district should not be teaching a TLT-like course and a Council should only offer NYLT as a follow on to TLT. Any other course will not fit with well leadership-wise with TLT and send a confusing message to the scouts.

[Eagledad]

>>A district should not be teaching a TLT-like course and a Council should only offer NYLT as a follow on to TLT. Any other course will not fit with well leadership-wise with TLT and send a confusing message to the scouts.

[moosetracker]

Our District use to hold district level JLT.. Then stopped. My troop was too dependent on it. When they stopped.. It was "canceled this year we will have it next year.." "canceled again.. For sure next year".. "Canceled." Our troop during this time, did no training, just gripped about the cancellations.

 

One of my woodbadge tickets was doing the JLT for the troop to kick them into self-relience.. Unfortunatly, then they changed to TLT, and our troop is floundering again.

 

I suggested that Scouting U.. offer to the SM & SPL not the TLT course, but guidelines on "How to run their own TLT course at troop level."

 

I think it should be run at troop level to give the youth leaders a chance to bond.. But, the troops need more then be handed a book. I find most Leaders of troops are very unconfident with just this as their guide.

 

Talk to them, give them personal example, give them a way to envision the day.. They will be much more confident about going and doing.

[AvidSM]

I have heard good things about NYLT from the scouter's whoose youth leaders have attended it. As I understand it, it teaches the EDGE method and is like a mini-Wood Badge Course.

 

I know that there are scouters in my district who still teach the old Junior Leader Course at the troop level. I have showed them how TLT is run and even gave them my powerpoint slides that I used when I taught it. I also encourage them to send thier current or future SPL/ASPL's to NYLT. I tell them that NYLT will make more sense to them if they get TLT and not the old Junior Leader course.

 

I guess, because it's my job, I tend to focus my time and energy on helping the adult leaders in my district make the program work at the unit level. Is NYLT OK? Was JLTC better? I really can't say.

[CNYScouter]

I dont have experience with doing TLT on a District/Council level but I was the CD for Venturing VLSC on a Council level and you will most likely encounter the same issues.

 

During this training I ended with a couple of groups made up entirely of one Crew and a group that was put together from Crews who only sent one or two members.

 

Being the ADC for Venturing Ive had the chance to visit most of the units that attended VLSC.

 

The crews that sent almost the entire Crew are functioning a lot better than the crews that sent only one or two crew members.

 

The crews that sent only one or two members it made no difference in the way the unit was run.

 

The Crews that sent a large group of its members are very youth run and are some of the most active units.

 

I dont think the youth from the crews that only sent 1 or 2 members got a great deal out of the training as not enough of the rest of the Crew had the skills to know how to work together.

 

I think youll see the same thing happen with TLT on a District/Council Level.

 

[jhankins]

It depends on how you run a district or council TLT. If the focus is on the "Team" that the boys came with, you'll get those aspects of team development and cooperation you're looking for. If you break the boys up, it's more of a seminar on leadership rather than a team-building experience.

 

You also get a spirit of cooperation from a district event. We have several troops and patrols that now camp together on occasion and the SPLs work on common events and share information because they met at Cedar Badge.

 

I do believe a TLT should be run every six months at the troop level, but there's an epidemic of leaders refusing to do them, or not having the time to do so. As part of the deal as a district if we offer the Cedar Badge course, the Scoutmaster or his assistants have to be involved in some form, they're just not bearing all of the burden.

[Buffalo Skipper]

The comparison to VLSC is an interesting one, but its purpose is somewhat different from TLT. VLSC is a leadership program intended for the entire unit (crew). We have also put on council-level VLSC courses, but the main excuse for this is that crews are too small and inexperienced to execute their own course. We have been fortunate that for the most part we have had mostly complete crews in attendance, which help.

 

Ironically, when our troop runs our TLT, we include our entire troop, which is not the real idea of the program. Our reason for this is that we do this after crossover, and for the new scouts, we break them out for about half of the training into a "Your job as new member of a patrol" group. This is led by the patrol leaders, who have just completed Green Bar (inquiry.net). No, that is not exactly the way the program is designed, but it is an effective method of implementing the program for us.

[rquezada]

Our council used to run a TLT program called Cedar Badge (I posted this info in another forum some time ago) that covered the three modules but added other activities that help new youth leaders learn how to run the troop, such as the PLC, planning campfires, planning a campout and how to conduct games and how to lead songs. We did this to assist the Scoutmaster in training his youth leaders. Unlike the TLT syllabus, which is really dry for boys, we made our program hands-on and fun. We had lots of games that applied those three modules (all used EDGE so the Scouts better understood the concept). The council no longer supports Cedar Badge but two districts are running an improved version of it. It's not NYLT lite. Just basic patrol leader training and activities a boy can bring back to the troop. Course emphasizes patrol method and spirit. All those leader handbooks are great references, but few boys ever crack them open. The council had been running some form of Cedar Badge for decades twice a year. It has been highly successful and augments many troops' own leadership training. So we know there is a need for some kind of basic leader training other than what is (or is not) being offered by the unit.