Question about YPT and the Patrol Method

[NJCubScouter]

Eagle92 says:

 

A very nasty rumor I've heard on MyScouting is that the next version of G2SS will no longer have the patrol activities exemption. This comes from a former poster on this forum who has lots of knowledge and connections within the national folks.

 

Well, you know, you can't be too careful these days. I mean, a patrol out on an outing unsupervised might stumble across an atheist, or a drag queen, or horror of horrors, a girl, and there is no way they could protect themselves from these dangers without two trained adults along.

 

As for the "former poster on this forum who has lots of knowledge and connections within the national folks", yeah, and I see he posts under his real name over there, too. I could make a comment about that former poster and the accuracy of some of the reports he has passed along from "national folks" in the past, but I fear I have already raised the eyebrows of some of the moderators and do not want them to have to do forum work on this day of all days.

 

Happy Father's Day everybody!

[Eagle92]

NJ,

While he is an interesting character, I have had several " conversations" over there with him, I will say this about him: he is knowledgeably about scouting and does seem to have some connections with national, i.e. he wrote a letter about "class A uniform" terms by supply for the new shorts and now the term is no longer in the description. But he still needs to work on some things.

 

 

[Kudu]

If we are talking about the same person, he reports that the change in policy was a result of his repeated "requests for clarification" from a national committee.

 

If true, we must give credit where credit is due: He was insistent enough to distract these esteemed national committee members from their high-level discussions of indoor CEO "leadership" theory to realize that a loophole still existed that allowed Patrol Leaders to practice the real-world Patrol leadership that Wood Badge stamped out without mercy:

 

Larson later reported, "He [Hillcourt] fought us all the way... He had a vested interest in what had been and resisted every change. I just told him to settle down, everything was going to be all right." See "1965" at the following URL:

 

http://www.whitestag.org/history/history.html

 

It is ironic that the final nail in the coffin of Hillcourt's Patrol Leader Training (PLT) course was pounded home on the BSA's centennial year, exactly 45 years after leadership development killed Hillcourt's Wood Badge and PLT.

 

Perhaps our former poster had the same motivation as Mark David Chapman: to have his name forever associated with America's greatest rock star of Scouting, William "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt :-/

 

Yours at 300 feet,

 

Kudu

 

[OldGreyEagle]

Do we have official confirmation from Irving that Patrol Outings/Campouts without adults has been struck?

 

I don't mean heavy rumors, I don't mean I heard from a guy who knows a guy who is the son in law of the Grandest Po-bah,

 

Do we have confirmation?

[Eagle92]

On MyScouting.org, Richard Boulon (sp) who works for national did say that the topic of removing the patrol activities exemption was being discussed. Nothing more has come out over there.

[OldGreyEagle]

Rather then to continue to cry in our Root Beer, is their something we can do besides hysterically wringing our hands and talking about the good old days?

 

Is this something worth rallying against or do we contineut the status quo, cluck out collective tongues and stand by as the program gets gutted?

[Kudu]

Yes, OGE, just say "No!"

 

Boycott Wood Badge and Scoutmaster-specific training.

 

"Just Say No!" worked when Boy Scouts refused to wear the old dress-designer uniform. The BSA was forced to find a loop-hole around the national committee that forced their indoor values on our monopoly corporation.

 

If you look at the situation objectively, allowing Patrol Leaders to take their Patrols camping without William Hillcourt's six month Patrol Leader Training (PLT) course is just one Utah newspaper headline away from being rescinded anyway.

 

The problem is that Wood Badge killed PLT, a specialized course with the single goal of training Patrol Leaders how to take their Patrols hiking and then camping without adult supervision:

 

Patrols are ready to go hiking and camping on their own just as soon as the Patrol Leader has been trained, and the Scouts have learned to take care of themselves (Handbook for Scoutmasters [fourth edition], page 118).

 

If we want to rescue the Patrol Method from the way it is described in Scoutmaster-specific training, then we must kick the leadership experts out of Wood Badge.

 

Yours at 300 feet,

 

Kudu

 

[OldGreyEagle]

I went on My Scouting, and I saw one thread on Patrol Camping.

 

Started by the past Forum member who hasn't changed his editorial style in any way.

 

I didnt see anything that alleged striking Patrol Outings was being considered, the post by the National Employee reads:

 

"Guys, it takes some time for me to go from lurking to participating. I still lose my cookies getting into the community so it is hit and miss. However, let's go to the source vs. rumor.

 

Circa May 2008 (literature updates pending). It was based on review of a letter requesting clarification of the policy related to "patrol activities" to the camping task force and approved by the Boy Scout Committee:

 

A Boy Scout patrol or Varsity Scout squad may participate in Patrol Activities with the permission of their Scoutmaster or Coach and parents/guardians.

 

The clarification is intended to provide leaders and parents the discretion to approve local activities for patrols/squads while eliminating hiking or camping outings without proper adult leadership and planning tools such as Tour Permits"

 

OK, that looks like a pretty solid affirmation that the Patrol Outing is not in jeopardy. Then again, I dont always comprehend everthing I read. What do you guys see?

 

 

 

[shortridge]

"... while eliminating hiking or camping outings without proper adult leadership and planning tools such as Tour Permits"

 

That sounds like a ban on independent patrol outdoor events to me!

 

I'm not sure what else would be left as an approved patrol activity. A day trip to the local bowling alley, driven by their parents, of course, since they can't hike there. Or maybe an independent movie or video game night at the CO.

 

After all, those are valuable opportunities to hone and show leadership skills, just as valid as taking a group of boys on a 10-mile hike and overnight into the wilderness without any adults nearby.

[OldGreyEagle]

Ok this is the paragraph

 

The clarification is intended to provide leaders and parents the discretion to approve local activities for patrols/squads while eliminating hiking or camping outings without proper adult leadership and planning tools such as Tour Permits"

 

See, when I saw that leaders and parents had the discretion to approve local activities for patrols/squads, I took that as anything that the local leaders and arents were up for was fine.

 

the the line ..."eliminating hiking or camping outings without proper adult leadership and planning tools such as Tour Permits"

 

ok, so you can't go Paintballing using troop equipment and not filling out a tour permit because it wasn't BSA related. You can't go without the correct number of adults to so any activity and call it a patrol activity

[shortridge]

OGE,

 

I would read that line differently, but it's very awkwardly written, so who knows.

 

The change itself that he mentions - "A Boy Scout patrol or Varsity Scout squad may participate in Patrol Activities with the permission of their Scoutmaster or Coach and parents/guardians." - if that's all there is to it, it's completely harmless.

 

The problem is with the explanation, which buggers everything up in the Confuse-O-Meter.

[BadenP]

Look even if National is blind and dumb enough to try to end unsupervised patrol camping it won't change anything. The GSS are guidelines, as the title states, not the law, and are interpreted many different ways, as seen in this forum. The boys can still go as a group of friends, practice scout skills, pass requirements, and not worry about all the bureaucratic nonsense from National.