Reinventing the WEBELOS Program

[Nike]

How should the WEBELOS program be re/structured and programmed in order to ease the transition into a Troop and strengthen the Patrol Method?

 

 

 

[Stosh]

Clarity on what the Webelos program is supposed to accomplish would be a good start. Many of the Webelos DL's feel that AOL is the goal of their program, not crossing over into Boy Scouts. If that be the emphasis for those 18 months, the boys will be less inclined to join Boy Scouts.

 

As a matter of fact, I have even run across a couple of WDL's who were quite hostile to the Boy Scout program and actually discouraged their continuation. In each circumstance where this has been done, no boys from the Den crossed over into Boy Scouts.

 

Stosh

[Eagledad]

Im a pretty open and critical of the parts of BSA programs that I don't think work very well with our youth and how they keep scouts in the program. I am not a fan of the Tiger program or the Venture Patrol program. I have been a Webelos leader, District Membership Chairman and a Member of the Council Training committee. My nature (also my job) is analyzing and deveoping solutions to improve those things I analyze. That is what I do.

 

Of the 16 Webelos in my last den, all 16 crossed over into troops and 12 became Eagles.

 

I preface all that to say I believe the Webelos doesnt need any real changes to get more boys to cross over into troops. I think it does a pretty good job for what it is desgined to do. Dens that dont have a good cross over rate where generally not run as the BSA suggest. Ive stated several times before that less than 50% of Webelos cross over into troops, but the major cause for that are Webelos Leaders who dont follow the program. The number one major cause for that is adult leader burnout. There are a lot of things that can be done to help the crossover numbers, but I personally dont think changing the Webelos program is the solution. It works pretty well.

 

Barry

 

[eagle77]

Please do not try and reinvent this. The way it is set up works fine. The problem isn't the program its the adults leading the program. I had the same problem as JBlake there were 10 WII in the pack, the WII leader had no interest in Boy Scouting and passed that along to each and every cub and parent in the Den, two entered our troop and left after summer camp. Like it or not many packs and troops are sometimes stuck with putting the only person willing to volunteer for that job. Sometimes you luck out and get some really good leaders, but lately I've been finding that more and more are either poorly trained or hardly trained at all and know very little about what their actual job is.

[SMT224]

As others here have wisely said, the program itself does not so much need tweaking... it's how the Pack and Den Leader implement the program.

 

Another critical issue is how well the AOL Den integrates with the crossover Troop. The more often the Scoutmaster visits the Den the better. The more Troop activities the Den visits the better. The AOL Cubs need to see what the Troop is and what the Scouts do to feel comfortable about the crossover and joining the Troop. Having Scout siblings / friends / neighbors in AOL Den can also really help the comfort level of the Cubs in crossing over and sticking with the Troop.

 

 

[Twocubdad]

Uhhmm, if there are such problems with implementation of the program, doesn't that suggst there may be problems with the program itself?

 

After, what, 40 years with few changes, I think there are things which have grown up around the program which aren't necessarily written into the program. The incredible emphasis on crossover and Arrow of Light, for instance. Many packs make a huge deal, spare no expense, to make sure everyone knows the Webelos IIs have completed Cub Scouts. Guess what, approximately half the boys take us at our word and finish their scouting careers at the end of Webelos. And why not? We give them the perfect exit point.

 

Several years ago there was a special edition of Sports Illustrated all about youth sports. One of the articles was about the development of young athletes -- sort of an "ages and stages" article. What really interested me from the article is that around age 11 boys develop the ability to objectively evaluate their own performance. At age 8, a kid can wiff every ball pitched to him but still be convinced he'll play for the Yankees some day. Around age 11 that kid will come to the self-realization he really isn't any good at baseball.

 

As a result, kids begin to specialize. Up until that time kids generally will try anything -- especially when they have parents intent on making sure Little Precious is never denied a thing. Around 11 they focus on those activities they really enjoy and in which they excel. We bemoan loosing boys to sports. But if you think about it, we're generally loosing the kids who are good at sports to sports.

 

So at about the time boys are beginning to make their own assessment of what activities they enjoy and are good at, we provide the marginal boys the perfect exit strategy from scouting -- a huge graduation ceremony.

 

If I were going make changes to the program, I would look at some way of making the move from Webelos more seamless, like the transition from Cubs to Webelos. Assuming the SI theory is correct, I would restructure the program so the time when boys are already picking and choosing things for themselves doesn't correspond with the one big break in the scouting program.

 

Another problem I think has grown up somewhat organically in many packs is den leaders joining with their sons as Tigers and tracking along with them through Webelos II. As much as anything, this contributes to leader burnout after four or five years.

 

Back in my day, packs had a handful of Cub dens and one Webelos den. On your 10th birthday you moved to the Webelos den. There was a significant social difference between Cubs and Webelos. The cub dens were led by den mothers and met after school at someone's house. The Webelos den was led by a couple dad and met at the scout hut. We often met for activities on Saturdays. I'm not suggesting that the Leave It To Beaver sexism was an improvement, but there was an idea that Webelos was a grade up and more of a "guy thing."

 

Today, with the den leaders tracking along with the boys for five years, the biggest change between Cubs and Webelos is the hat and neckerchief. Den leaders tend to find a grove that works for them and stick with it. I know as a Cubmaster, it was a constant struggle to convince a den leader that after three years in the program they needed to be retrained. Consequently, they tended to run Webelos like cub dens.

 

Two areas where this show up is camping and advancement. I don't know of many Webelos dens which camp as a den. I'll admit that in my time as a WDL I never took our den on den-only campout. But with two big pack campouts, a spring and fall district Webelos campout, resident camp, day camp and (for Webelos IIs) campouts with a couple different Boy Scout troops, I felt like we were doing enough. In retrospect, I would blow off a couple of those for the experience of having the den camp together.

 

The fourth-year den leaders also run Webelos advancement the same as with cubs. There is no such thing as individual initiative. Everyone works on activity pins together and everyone earns them. The proof is in the numbers of boys receiving Arrow of Light. In our brother pack, it is rare to attend a crossover where one of the boys DOSEN'T receive the AoL.

 

Frankly, I don't know how much that affects transition and retention, but it sure creates a problem for the scout troop. Boys -- and mostly parents -- come into the troop with the expectation of racking up a merit badge every month. I spend a lot of time trying to re-direct that energy into more appropriate areas.

 

Of course that's just my observation of the small part of the elephant I'm holding. I know there are a lot packs that do things differently and I love to hear how their results differ.

 

Solutions? Perhaps something to encourage packs to treat Webelos as more of a special program and to encourage specialized Webelos den leaders who stick with that program. If national wanted to make a really bold move, perhaps Webelos could be made a separate unit. Or attached to Boy Scout troops instead of Cub Scout packs.

[Oak Tree]

Here's a quote to support you, Twocubdad:Every process is perfectly designed to get the results it is currently producing.http://i4process.com/publications/rapid_results.html

 

 

[evmori]

Maybe it's not the WEBELOS program that needs help. Has anyone considered burnout? Starting as Tiger means almost 5 years of arts and crafts.

[Eagle92]

My thoughts.

 

#1 I believe the Webelos program is very well designed overall. Only real complaint is the AOL and age requirements as that does leave a lot of room for moving up to Scouts. But that is minor.

 

#2 Challenge lies with implementation. Folks are trained to do things a certain way for 3 years, and even with training, are in a grove and don't really adapt to changing program. Also as previously mentioned, it's hard to say you are no longer trained, despite 3 years and 2 courses of expereince

 

#3 Burnout. I have found it's harder to be a TCDL than an ASM or OACA. With ASM, you are guiding youth to do the work. And as an OACA, unless you are rebuilding a chapter, you are still guiding the youth. And even with rebuilding, the number of meetings to help organize are quite fewer, and the major activities are organized by the lodge for you. But as a DL you MUST plan, organize and execute meetings almost weekly.

 

More later.

[Brian85]

I agree with Eagle 92 completely. The hardest job in Scouting is the TCDL. If you find a TCDL doing everything they are supposed to be doing; record keeping, planning, advancement, dealing with kids AND PARENTS every week...it is a very busy job. Even if the TCDL is delegating activities, it is a tremendous responsibility. On top of it all, who is the TCDL? A former CM, ACM, CC, or experienced DL??? No, it is the newest, most least trained person in the entire program. Sometimes a young Mom, multiple younger kids, and she gives her one hour per week...

But the question is how do we improve the WEBELOS program. I think the real question is to ask what the expectations are for advancement. It took 72 years to develop 1 million Eagles, then with declining membership, it took only 27 more years to get to the 2 million mark. The percentage of Eagles produced has skyrocketed. We have had exponential advancement growth in the last 30 years, but even with all the changes, the program has really changed very little. Like Eagle92, I am not a big fan of the 'Venture' patrols nor do I like 'New Scout' patrols. I was the junior Scout in my patrol and I moved up the patrol ladder by doing it all, until eventually I was the Leader, with my own new Scouts to lead. I still remember all of my scout idols, Chris, Scott, Mark, Marshall, Harold, and the list goes on. They were all my Scout Mentors, before mentorship was the buzzword.

I would love to see a National Campaign using successful Americans in everyday life, stopping to say, I'm a Boy Scout. Maybe even throw in some everyday people, between the 'stars.' How about someone making a list of the first female who earned Ranger or their Quartermaster? or what about a video showing a coed Venture unit with the tagline, Boy Scouts of America, it's not just for boys!!!

[Eagle92]

I'M BACK For the moment anyway.

 

To clarify, any DL positions is the hardest. I am emphasizing TCDL as that is the position I am in currently, in reality if not on the charter (don't get me started on that one, it's being dealt with AGAIN).

 

And being a DL for 5 years can wear one out.

 

I'm fortunate in that I am addicted to Scouting, and whenever I start feeling burned or stressed out, I just need go camping and turn into PROGRAM FREAK to recharge. But others are not like that.

[BrentAllen]

I don't think the program needs changing. I think Webelos DLs need to understand their mission - to prepare the boys for Boy Scouts. As COR for our Pack, I discuss this at the Pack Leaders meeting in August. We go over the timeline for visiting Troops, going camping with a Troop, finishing AOL requirements, crossing over. I make sure they understand their real job is to get the boys ready for the next level, Boy Scouts. If they understand and buy into that mission, it will come through during their meetings and outings.

[Eagledad]

>>Solutions? Perhaps something to encourage packs to treat Webelos as more of a special program and to encourage specialized Webelos den leaders who stick with that program. If national wanted to make a really bold move, perhaps Webelos could be made a separate unit. Or attached to Boy Scout troops instead of Cub Scout packs.

[DeanRx]

Barry -

 

I agree with most everything you posted.

 

#1 - get rid of the Tiger Cub program, don't even THINK of going nation-wide with the lion cubs! A 6 year program = burnout = dropout

 

#2 - as a CM with a boy who is getting ready to bridge to his Web I year from Bears, I have come to realize that the STYLE and TYPE of adult leader needed for the Den really needs to change for the Web years to be good at preparing a lad for Boy Scouts. Some folks might be able to shift their focus from a parent led top down approach to more of a boy-led / take turns leading approach, some may not. I have heard some talk of this being a gender specific issue, but I don't think that is the case. I am coming to the belief that between the Bear and Web I year is a good time to have a change out of the DL if at all possible.

 

#3 - The Web DL specific training really needs to emphasize the DIFFERENCE in lower levels of cubs and the expectations of webelos. It also bears stating that the training should focus on prepping boys for Boy Scouts at least as much as it emphasizes advancement and getting them to AOL. Most training I have been to puts a lot of attention on advancement. With the dropping of Cub Scouts Helps and the pushing of Fast Tracks programs - I fear this unbalanced approach will grow more as time goes on. I do not see this as a beneficial thing, making advancement the ONLY aim of the program. There are other aims that are supposed to be on par with advancement. Can anyone name them?

 

#4 - THIS IS A BIG ONE !! - Webelos leaders, and more so Webelos PARENTS need to be told and taught that their scout will FAIL on their first attempts of some tasks and that its OK. It is part of the learning process not only in scouts, but in life that you will not get everything perfect on the 1st try (and if you don't its not OK to let mommy and daddy jump in and take over to make it all better). This is how most parents in cubs operate. I see this as being a MAJOR barrier to preparing kids for the transition to Boy Scouts.

 

We have a very active, very well meaning mom who used to be our CC. Her son is getting ready to get AOL and cross to a troop this month. She wants to put off the ceremony because she wants the Den and Pack to have more time to coordinate with the Troops and the OA because, "Last years cross-over was not performed smoothly by the Boy Scouts in OA and we want it to leave a lasting impression on the webelos and on the younger scouts so they want to go on in scouting."

 

OK - I can buy into that. But, here's the thing... it (the ceremony) is being ran by Boy Scouts, not the adults. It is not likely going to be as polished and primed as an adult led activity and that is OK. It will still make an impression. It was not done sloppy last year, but an Indian or two stumbled over his lines / lost his place / etc... But again, these are youth leading youth - that is what the program should be and it is rarely executed perfectly when a 14y/o is in charge. Its VERY difficult for a good number of cub parents to wrap their mind around that idea.

 

At cub resident camp this past summer, the morning color guard unit struggled to get the flag posted. At first, they actually had it on the lanyard upside down and began to hoist it, saw they had it wrong and reversed course to fix it. In the silence in front of the entire camp - some of the parents from the unit stepped forward to start helping 'correct' the color guard. The camp director (over the PA) announced, "They are getting it, let them do it. breakfast will wait a few minutes for all of us." The camp director GOT IT, the cubbie parents did not. In fact some were openly upset at the CD for asking them not to intervene in the color guard's duty.

 

That moment more than any showed me the difference between an effective Boy Scout leader and the usual cub scout leader. The Web DL needs to be trained to be more like the Camp Director in the example. thats not an easy task when you've done the opposite for the past 4 years as a DL.

[evmori]

At cub resident camp this past summer, the morning color guard unit struggled to get the flag posted. At first, they actually had it on the lanyard upside down and began to hoist it, saw they had it wrong and reversed course to fix it. In the silence in front of the entire camp - some of the parents from the unit stepped forward to start helping 'correct' the color guard. The camp director (over the PA) announced, "They are getting it, let them do it. breakfast will wait a few minutes for all of us." The camp director GOT IT, the cubbie parents did not. In fact some were openly upset at the CD for asking them not to intervene in the color guard's duty.

 

This is a great example of parents not letting their boy do things for themselves. Yeah it might not be perfect but the boys are learning! And to be honest, the flag ceremony is for them, not mom and dad.