Got Burned with Cancelled Event

[codger]

Boy, I just got burned by my SPL and SM.

 

Last Fall, my troop PLC decided to hold a Wilderness Survival Campout to learn the skills and practice for the merit badge. I (committee member) volunteered the use of 500 acres of woods and fields nearby (Central NJ) that my hunting club uses (in March - after seasons close). I presented in writng and in a personal presentation to the hunting club and received permission to use the property, and even to make primitive shelters using cut or fallen natural materials - can't do that on public land. Got permission. Got club members to volunteer to help out too.

 

So, I developed a plan for our two ASM's and me (the three of us are ex military or Eagles) to teach the boys survival skills, cooking without utensils, making a survival kit, basically showing them how to complete the requirements. None of the boys (and only 2 or 3 of the committee members) were capable of teaching these skills, so I emailed an outline of my plans to my SM and CC two weeks ago, with a program for the weekend that I thought would be fun and memorable. I even incorporated ideas from this forum -see topic "killing for food, not hunting" - but without the killing part, as Central Jerseyans are not comfortable doing that. Our plans did not include any "gung-ho" stuff - just make a primitive shelter, do the requirements, that's it. We are 3 weeks away from the campout, and last night at the meeting my SM informs me the boys decided to cancel the program and instead use the weekend to prepare for another scout cometition later in spring. Apparently, they are no longer interested in wilderness survival. What a waste of time for me, and loss of face among my fellow hunting club members who graciously extended their hospitality. As for my SM, I think he is most comfortable taking the easy way out - just do what the boys want. The SPL is taking the easy way out too - he can just go over the same old fire building, etc. for this other competition and not reach for anything out of the ordinary. The capper was a comment from the SM that they really are not comfortable camping at this site (although I made it clear I would show them the land anytime before the event) because it is not an "official" Scout camp. I guess it doesn't have platforms for their tents, so they might have to sleep in 500 acres of woods on the ground? I cannot believe these guys call themselves Scouts. I see my enthusiasm for volunteering will just be diminished further.

[Eagle92]

Codger,

Sorry to hear about that, seams like a great time was planned. Heck my old troop used a wildernes survival type campout as a Webelos overniter back in the day, with considerable success.

 

A few comments though. #1 the SPL and PLC should have done more prep work on it. They should have written the letters, secure permission, come up with lesson plans, etc. Give them a little ownership and responsibility and they will usually want to complete THEIR campout.

 

#2 in reference to camporees. Some do require a prep trip. No prep trip, you lose points in the competition.

 

#3 A better outlet for you may be as a Merit Badge Councilor. That way as the Scouts come to you to work on the MBs, you can uswe your resources to help them.

[CA_Scouter]

Codger, you put so much effort and its very frustrating to get the event canceled, but E92 makes a good point. If the scouts don't 'own' it, it will likely not happen.

 

This happened to us last year, an ASM did a bunch of work setting up a high adventure backpack trip in the Eastern Sierras, but he did not include the scouts. When it came time to sign up, only 2 or 3 did.

 

Some years back, I tried to get the scouts to get a fund raising drive going for that big tsunami. No luck. It wasn't their idea, so it didn't fly.

 

I think our guys woulda jumped on that outing. I'd probably get trampled on the way out the door.. ;-)

 

Sounds like you've got a boy-led troop there though. That's a good thing funny as it might sound right now...

 

 

 

[T2Eagle]

Wow,

I would find that completely unacceptable. The boys get to decide a lot of things, but blowing off commitments, wasting adult volunteer time, embarrassing a committee member, and being ungrateful about of the use of someone elses property are not among them. More points at a camporee are not a sufficient trade off for any of those things. You cant make scouts go somewhere they dont want to go, but if the adults couldnt persuade them of the error of their ways they certainly should not allow them to do something else instead.

 

The PLC made the decision to do this campout, the opportunity to change their minds had passed once you, as a troop representative, received the permission from your club. What if the SPL HAD written the letter and received the permission from your club. It still wouldn't have been acceptable to change their minds at this point. To the outside world the troop is the troop and who has buy-in on a program is not anyone outside the troop's problem.

[Horizon]

Codger:

 

Sorry you got burned. Sometimes, working with kids, you can put a lot into something and they just don't seem to appreciate it. However, you keep on going and then you find you have reached the kids.

 

As an aside, I wish my Troop was near you - I have boys that would be all OVER that campout! In fact, I read your original thread and will be make a propose to my new SPL after elections. The current one is busy prepping for Camporee!

[ScoutNut]

You have the facilities, you have the program, and you have 3 weeks. Sign up as a Wilderness Survival Merit Badge Counselor, and open it up to the District, or even the entire Council.

 

Contact your Council ASAP and get the info and sign up sheets out there to the other Troops.

 

Why waste the opportunity?

 

 

 

[codger]

Thanks for the replies, folks. Mostly I just needed to vent. I did find some suggestions helpful - such as involving the SPL in the process to secure the use of the land. The difficulty was in developing the program, where none of the scouts could conceivably have done that, since they never were trained/exposed to any type of rustic camping, or survival situation. These are very suburban/urban scouts, who never really ventured off a trail or into unknown areas at all. This situation is common in boy-led troops - if the boys don't have the ability to develop a program, the adults need to do that in order to teach the skills. Or else new topics/skills cannot be introduced - if no boy understands what's involved, they cannot develop an effective program event.

[Eagle92]

Codge,

To paraphrase Lord Vader: Don't underestimate the power of a Scout While some or even all might not have the skill level that you do, they can still do alot of the work, with you providing technical support and teaching. Also if one of the scouts has WSMB already, I would definitely have him involved in the teaching process, with you giving him advice and guidance. Trust me Scout can DO A LOT OF THINGS that we assume they cannot do.

 

Sorry about the vent, tried to make it as positive as possible, but it's a pet peeve of mine when folks underestimate the abilities of scouts.

 

Trying to make it a district event is a great idea. Also in a few years when oldest becomes scout, can I see if my troop can come up and play

 

 

[evmori]

Dang that sounds like a blast!

 

Next time, ya should get the buy-in from the PLC & SM before you go to all that trouble. Sorry you got burned.

[John-in-KC]

codger,

 

It's not just involving them with the process ... it starts at presenting the program idea such that the youth will own it from the idea stage onward.

 

If they think it's their idea, they'll have a desire to do it.

 

If it's an adult's idea, half the wind is immediately gone from the sail.

[Eagledad]

There are some good responses, but even getting the scouts more involved and invested in the project won't always work, sometimes the scouts aren't willing to give what it takes to make such things happen. We talk here like it just boys being boys because the adults didnt handle it right, but when you work at the District or Council level, you are awakened that adults are just as bad. I don't think it is an age thing.

 

While there are good lessons here for everyone, the SPL, PLC and the SM owe at least a word of thanks and maybe even an apology for all the effort that was put in by the volunteers. We complain about burnout and how thankless volunteering can be, this is where someone can learn at an early age of how to be understanding and compassionate to those who may be disappointed by their decisions because of the time they invested. Its not like just flipping a switch and everyone is OK with this decision, people put a lot of themselves into making things like this successful. There is disappointment to say the least. Just because the scouts arent considered adults by age doesnt mean they arent mature enough to experience being appreciative to those who invest their time and resources for them, no matter how the process was handled.

 

We had a troop do a program like this for our district and it was a big success. Several of the other troops ask that troop to teach them how to do their own survival weekend. Its to bad this troop didnt buy into it.

 

Barry

 

[artjrk]

As Codger pointed out in the original post. The PLC decided that they wanted to do the Wilderness survival campout. Only then did he step in and volunteer to get the location and even arrange for some other volunteer instructors. I have run into this in my Troop as well. The PLC proposes the calendar for the year and the adults take over the logistics.

 

This is where I am seeing the problem (at least in our case). After the boys decide what to do they, they lose ownership of the activity. Slowly I am trying to get the boys more invested in the planning and preparations. This month is the first Patrol Campouts since I came to the troop. i figure it will be easier for them to start small before we try to take on the whole troop campouts. My plan for the future is to get a different patrol to work with each adult event coordinator. I hope this helps the scouts take ownership of an event and get more enthusiastic for it.

 

But yes currently I am frustrated as well when we have to cancel an event due to lack in participation.

[Stosh]

First of all I think Codger came up with a fantastic idea, and wished things had gone well for him.

 

Yet, I find it always a struggle to have the boys come up with ideas and not follow through. I agree the ownership has to remain with the boys and even if they don't have the skill set to follow through, the adults can assist them in learning them. As long as they are involved there will be no bail out when it comes time to pull the trigger on the event.

 

If we are teaching boys to take on leadership and all they do is toss the stick in one direction and then expect the adults to fetch, I don't see that as an effective approach to leadership. All they decided was what direction to toss the stick. If the dog just sits there and does nothing, the boy has to either retrieve the stick himself, thus accomplishing the activity, or walk away and not play the game because it wasn't that important. Either way the investment on the part of the dog is key to the follow-through on the activity.

 

I like the idea that if all the leg work has been done on the activity, open it up to the district/council so that others have an opportunity to get in on a great activity. Just because my boys turned out to be slugs, doesn't mean that there are others out there that would jump at the opportunity for a great activity. A few participants from other troops may open the doors for other troops to get out there and do some great things in scouting.

 

Stosh

[codger]

Here's an update. After a meeting with the SM, SPL and ASPL, we agreed that the troop will still camp at the site on the weekend in question, but the SPL will adjust the program to teach the boys other skills for the upcoming camporee/competition. We decided I would take the SM, ASM and SPL (who is the SM's son) to the property to pick out a couple of likely campsites last saturday morning. I brought my son (First Class) and the ASM brought his son (First Class) at the 9am time, but when we arrived at the SM's house to pick him up, no SPL. The SM stated his son was still asleep, and would not attend.

 

I decided to go anyway, since I wanted to salvage as much of this situation as possible, but realize that this SM's concept of "boy-led" does not involve his son being accountable for anything. Big problem.

 

We went, picked out a campsite, and met some of the club members. The Club Secretary, who is very enthusiastic about us using the property, even asked us to take an hour during the campout to participate in a state conservation project. They asked us to make quail habitat on the property - the state is trying to reintroduce native quail populations in several zones, including ours, so we will set up habitat for 5 coveys to be ready for the state to stock. Way cool, and the two First Class Scouts loved the idea, so we'll do it.

The campout is scheduled for two weekends from now, so I will let you know how it goes.

[AT1988]

Codger,

 

I so know how you feel. It's happened to me twice in the last four months. Both times it was the mothers, not the scouts. They were afraid it might get to cold for their sons during a hiking trip (we live in Southern California). Both times I flirted with the idea of switching into a more outdoor oriented troop, but my son, disappointed as I was wouldn't go for it.

 

"A scout is loyal," he said.