Help! Where is the handbook for the Troop Method

[Oak Tree]

Aaaack! It's been awhile since I've seen the claim that other troops are not doing "Scouting", and I'd humbly suggest this is a pretty harsh accusation to make. Also, the Boy Scouts of America clearly says (by the fact that they provide a charter) that the troop is, in fact, doing Scouting.

 

They may be neglecting one of the methods. Troops do, to some extent or another, favor one method over another. Is that a reason to pick up and leave? Look at your experience with the whole program, see what your son is getting out of it, and realize that other troops aren't going to be perfect, either.

 

Troops evolve. They may be doing a troop method now, but they might move toward more of a patrol method. It does depend on the vision of the leaders, and if you are a parent who is going to be closely associated with the program, it's very helpful if you and the Scoutmaster aren't completely at odds over the way things should work.

 

But the idea that just because they are neglecting one method means that they'll neglect them all...that is just not the way most people work. Leaders tend to focus on the aspects of the program that they think are the most important.

[Eagle92]

Oak,

Problem is that the Patrol Method, is not just a method of Scouting, but one of the foundations of Scouting, going back to BP and his 'experiment" on Brownsea Island in 1907 with 20 boys, formed into 4 patrols of 5 members each: CURLEWS, Ravens, Wolves and Bulls. The Idea of an SPL comes from Green Bar Bill and his expereinces with Scouting in Denmark.

 

Now grant you the 3rd ed. of the SMHB does talk about the SM being the PL of the troop's youth leadership, but that si only while starting a troop, or revitalizing one, and the SM gradually backs away from things and lets the youth take over.

[Thomas54]

 

The SM is looking at this way: He has 20 scouts on paper, 14 show up at meetings and ten or so on outings. That's one patrol, he thinks. It's easier to buy food for, (he thinks) I don't have to worry about who bunks with who life just get simpler.

 

To convince him that troop efficiency is not a program method you will have to persuade him to allow 4 in a patrol at campouts. Emphasize that cooking is actually made easier with smaller patrols. That one 13 Year PL is better equipped to keep track of three scout in his patrol of 4 then 7 scouts in a patrol of eight.

 

That is, you old Beaver, train your SM.

 

 

 

 

[Buffalo Skipper]

20 Scouts is 3 patrols, or two if you divide the inactive scouts between 2 groups of 7 active scouts.

 

SMs don't shop for food. Scouts shop. He needs to prepare them, but even with our 10-12 year old scouts in our young troop, scouts collect cash for food and shop on their own.

 

This teaches them leadership and responsiblity. As I posted earlier, when one removes the Patrol Method, one removes opportunites for personal growth, leadership development and a host of other learning opportunities.

[GKlose]

OakTree, I understand where you're coming from, but I can provide supporting data for my statement "if you ask me, it's not scouting" (the context of which was my own troop), but honestly I would find the extent of it rather embarrassing. What I'm speaking of isn't just, I feel, a breakdown of one method (Patrol Method), but it's a fundamental breakdown on virtually all eight methods.

 

I'm sorry -- I'm hoping this response doesn't sound coy. My intention is to not sidetrack this thread any more than I already have. Please feel free to drop email to me, if you'd like to discuss it more.

 

Guy

[E-Mtns]

It may be true if you neglect one method, you neglect all, more or less. Do some of the eight scouting methods carry more negative weight if overlooked than the others. It may be and that would be related to this thread.

 

I found this at Wiki. under SCOUT METHOD - Patrol system (or patrol method), the individual in a group. Scouts are organised in small groups (about 5-7 Scouts) because this is the natural way boys work together. These patrols are therefore more important than the Scout troop. Patrols must be kept intact under all circumstances, which means working, tenting, learning, cooking, so surviving together. In a Patrol, the Scouts learn to work with others, while the Patrol leader learns responsibility for others.

[BrentAllen]

"The Patrol system is the one essential feature in which Scout training differs from that of all other organizations."

 

"The Patrol system is not A way to operate a Boy Scout Troop, it is the ONLY way. Unless the Patrol system is in operation you really don't have a Boy Scout Troop."

 

"The Patrol is the unit in Scouting always, whether for work or for play, for discipline or for duty."

 

"Patrols should be kept intact under all circumstances."

 

"The object of the Patrol system is mainly to give real responsibility to as many boys as possible, with a view to developing their character."

 

"The Patrol is the character school for the individual."

 

"The Patrol system is the key to success in Scout training."

 

Baden-Powell

[Buffalo Skipper]

Brent, you missed (and it appears to be particular relevant here):

The object of the patrol method is not so much saving the Scoutmaster trouble as to give responsibility to the boy.

Robert S. S. Baden-Powell

 

E-Mtns, it seems that you have a pretty clear expectation of what should be happening in the unit regrading the patrol method. This is something you will have to evaluate where it will take your son's troop, what your role will be (as a parent and/or leader); eventually it may be something you will need to discuss with your son and with these things in mind, you will have to make a decision on what you will (or will not) do about it.

[Kudu]

E-Mtns writes:

 

My son's troop leadership wants to use the Troop method. I've looked through the SM handbook and the SPL and PL books but can't find the info.

 

I coined the term "Troop Method" in 2004, in the sense of an alternative to the Patrol Method.

 

So your Troop leadership's straight-faced use of the term is a milestone of sorts :-/

 

Would you please ask them where they heard about it?

 

E-Mtns writes:

 

Where is the handbook for the Troop Method?

 

The textbook example of the Troop Method is the Patrol Method presentation of "Scoutmaster and Assistant Scoutmaster Leader Specific Training." The "Boy Scout Scoutmaster Training Syllabus," is usually available at ScoutStuff.Org for $12.99, See:

 

http://tinyurl.com/y996wpb

 

The entire presentation never mentions a Patrol Leader, never describes a working Patrol, and uses the term "Patrol Method" to describe Adult Association "leadership styles." That is the perfect definition of the Troop Method.

 

"The Patrol Method

 

Time Allowed: 25 minutes

 

Teaching Objectives:

 

1) Show how to establish an environment that is safe both physically and emotionally in which Scouts can learn, grow, and enjoy Scouting to the fullest [Adult Association].

 

2) Explain that listening well is the first step in using appropriate [adult] leadership styles.

 

3) Show how positive reinforcement is among the most valuable contributions adults can bring to the lives of young people [Adult Association].

 

4) Employ various supportive [adult] leadership styles, matching them to the needs of each Scout and to the patrols and troop as a whole. Among the most effective styles are explaining, demonstrating, guiding, and enabling."

 

Kudu

 

http://inquiry.net/patrol/court_honor/index.htm

 

[E-Mtns]

Kudu's reply

 

"So your Troop leadership's straight-faced use of the term is a milestone of sorts :-/"

 

I would describe it as more of a setback for the boys who we volunteer our time for, and for some, that time is very precious. My son's leaders will remove opportunities for leadership growth if they eliminate the PL positions, two or three in this case. Adult leaders receive training, soon to be required for re-chartering, but that's not the point of this thread. It is the boys we serve that deserve more. They have the tools for working as Patrols, SPL & PL handbooks, I have even supplied the books. How can we expect them to build their own house if we take away the tools.

 

[Oak Tree]

Guy - I did send you a PM. I don't know if that feature is working or not.

 

I think you're making a fair point - commenting that your own troop doesn't feel like it's doing Scouting any more. That's really a different comment from when people say that other troops aren't doing Scouting (although this case isn't quite so bad, since E-Mtns clearly doesn't agree with what his troop is doing either.)

 

I've seen troops use the troop method, just as Kudu has. All of the quotes above about the importance of the patrol method are good. But most troop leaders are doing the best that they can, and I'd rather encourage them to do better, and not claim that what they are doing is "not Scouting". Using the troop method may not be ideal, but it's still Scouting.

[E-Mtns]

Here's another quote, author unknown, "Prohibition- Scouting does not prohibit a bad habit, but instead gives more exciting, better alternatives, that will absorb the Scout's attention and gradually lead him to forget the old habit. The reason is that prohibition generally invites evasion, since it challenges the spirit inherent in every boy. The boy is not governed by DON'T, but is lead on by DO".

 

I want my son's troop leadership to increase the "DO" part by giving them more challenging oppotunities to lead not decrease their chances by eliminating those positions of responsibility.

 

His Scoutmaster is giving the boys the responsibility to choose one or the other method too. He has given them a week to decide. He spoke for maybe five minutes about the how each is different. It is my understanding that part of the adults role is to manage the direction the troop is headed not the boys. He'll have 12 yr. old boys decide which is better, as if they really understand the differences. At that age I would have taken the road of least resistance, because of my immaturity. The SM has also said he can't wait to do the troop method "so we can have a real democracy where every boy gets a vote".

 

Have you ever felt like you're falling and you can't catch yourself, well that's how I feel.

[Knot Head]

We are far from a perfect troop but wow this sounds like a bad road to travel if the Adults are committed to it. Maybe a little training or watching another troop would help.

 

I wonder if this is because you have a group of "take charge" guys. It took about a year to "train" the adults in our troop to "think boy led" not "adult led". We need to get better but we have made some good progress. When we started adults would just jump in and set up the stove, unpack the trailer, set up the dining fly, etc. They were just used to running things and pitching in to get things done because they are nice helpful guys. Now we try to not just jump in. I mess up sometimes because all week long I'm used to taking charge at work and well... it's hard to switch gears! But the troop culture now is moving steadily towards pulling an adult aside after he takes over and reminding each other hey, we need to let the boys figure this stuff out.

 

Maybe your guys would respond to some chats about goals... that you can help build responsible adults with some leadership skills if we try the patrol method. This way two or three scouts get to learn responsiblity by planning a menu, purchasing the food, working with patrol mates in setting up and cleaning the cokking gear. Yeah the scouts all have to eat, but they can learn a little something in the process also. Patrols just allow for more "teachable moments" .(This message has been edited by knot head)

[Buffalo Skipper]

Having a scout-led troop mean neither that the scouts are suposed to vote on every action which takes place in the troop nor that they run amok like "Lord of the Flies." It means that, with Adult Association and Leadership Development, they mentor scout leaders so that they experience Personal Growth. I (and others) have already said that this is best experienced in the Patrol Method.

 

I would be concerned about this kind of aproach to leadership; and based on your repsonses, I believe you are too. Even if the scouts make the right choice now, it begs the question: When will then next offer of questionable direction be offered to the scouts?

[E-Mtns]

Well, the boys voted last night for the troop method. It was said by the SM that it will be a 6 month trial, to be revisited and voted on again on Aug. 11th I presume. I will now say to the leaders and scouts that if you're not in a patrol I cannot as a registered MBC sign off #9 Backpacking or #4 Camping MB requirements. As a counselor I cannot add or SUBTRACT from the requirements needed to earn the badge. My guess is the leaders will direct the boys toward a MBC who doesn't know any better. Now they will see the unintended consequences crop up that they didn't expect, it's such a shame that these things will happen to the boys.