Parents on Troop Campouts

[Knot Head]

I never address parents on a campout.

 

I encourage anyone that wants to attend to attend. Im all for developing good scouts but Im also for developing parent & child memories. We had one canoe trip where the heavens opened and we had 2.5 inches of rain in about 3 hours one night. The campsite was on the bank of the river, hard & flat and you guessed it didnt have great run off. We all had to pack the wet muddy gear and canoe 11 miles the next day. The load the stuff and drive home 4 hours. Thats the kind of campout that becomes legendaryan event a troop, but also a boy & his dad reminisce about forever.

 

And if by chance a dad & son develop a love for backpacking or canoeing or camping and go together outside of scouts then all the better. Lots of the guys that go with us have never been camping and thus feel they dont have the skills to be an ASM or help in any way. Once the initial I dont know what to do is broken we sometimes wind up with a committee leader, Popcorn guy or and ASM. I think there is big benefits to having the adults on board and feeling like they are part of the program.

 

Interference is usually pretty minimal and easy to handle. Some of that may have to do with the new parent orientation we do when guys come into the troop.

 

EDIT: The troop requires an adult to register and get a certification for youth protection before they attand a campout. So far no complaints about that.(This message has been edited by knot head)

[CNYScouter]

This thread talks about parents not attending campouts (or even working with youth) until they have taken training (YPT or further).

 

There is also the opinion that only registered (and trained) Adults be allowed on camping trips.

 

If an existing Troop or Crew wanted to implement this does anyone have suggestions on the steps necessary to put a policy like this in place?

 

How about with a small unit that has enough trouble getting a second adult just willing or able to attend a campout much less get training?

 

[Stosh]

I have found that if the parent that attends and drives to an event, their own son travels in the vehicle with them along with any other scouts needing a ride. At an activity, I have an extra lounge chair that is in the adult site where they are expected to visit with other adults. This segregates them from the boys. Parents do not bunk in with their sons because they camp with their patrol and adults camp with adults. This minimizes the need for YP although I encourage them to take the training on-line prior to the event. If the outing is aquatic I also request Safety Afloat and Safe Swim. I also suggest the basic leader training if they have time and it's a good recruiting tool for future registered leadership. Most if not all comply with that request, but not all do the basic leader training due to time constraints.

 

With my Venturing crew, the CO members attend most of the events with us and so I always have a ton of "chaperones". The boys usually campaign camp (i.e. meadow crash) so there's never an issue of who's bunking with whom. In a major storm, the boys seek shelter under rain flies or empty equipment tents as needed. Only a couple of the registered leadership of the crew are fully trained.

 

Stosh(This message has been edited by jblake47)

[Beavah]

If an existing Troop or Crew wanted to implement this does anyone have suggestions on the steps necessary to put a policy like this in place?

 

Yah, sure.

 

Talk to your district trainin' committee and arrange special sessions of training just for your unit. Set 'em up in a way that works with your calendar and da needs of your parent community (weekends, weeknights, whatever). I've always found parents are more willing to buy in if they're doin' it for the unit, with other parents they know from da unit (and school, and sports), on a schedule that's good for 'em.

 

Make it a fun, social thing. All about learnin' and being together with adults. Not about requirements so much as fun and "expectations", eh? Give da ones that need recognition recognition. Then start usin' 'em right away for more responsible things to reinforce and build on their trainin' with practical experience (and so ones that missed the trainin' want to do the next one).

 

Generally speakin', if you're starting from scratch, tryin' to send 'em off to a district event with strangers and shoehornin' into da district schedule isn't going to do it.

 

Beavah

 

[shortridge]

It depends on what level of training you want them to have. Fast Start and YP can be done online at any time, even without being registered. If you want every parent to have completed SM Fundamentals or IOLS, that's another issue entirely.

[Knot Head]

As mentioned previously YP takes about 20 minutes and should be no big deal when given ample time to get it done. To get registered all they need to do is fill out an application.

 

It's a pretty low bar to get people registered & to pass YP to go on a campout.

 

Now if a dad ever showed up and had not done his stuff and we needed him as a driver I'm probably gonna let him go on the campout so he can drive the kids. But it's never happened probably because I remind them what I need and why I need it. Part of it is troop culture you develop over time. I take YP seriously and remind parents why it is important. I think they appreciate it and thus spend the 20 minutes online to see what the rules are. We also go over the rules every campout on the first night again anyway.

 

>>>So far as siblings - NO! We may have one family campout during the year if the scouts plan one but that is the only time that siblings are allowed.

[asmt530]

I haven't read the other replies to this so forgive me if this is a repeat. New parents are always allowed on campouts. By NOT letting them go you are violating YP, plus everyone has the right to see and witness the program.

 

Give these parents something to do...knots, fire wood, cooking.....we can always find something and the help is always needed!

[Beavah]

By NOT letting them go you are violating YP, plus everyone has the right to see and witness the program.

 

Yah, I reckon this would be a misunderstanding of YP.

 

Certainly not "everyone" has a "right" to see and witness da program. We're a private organization, eh? And as we all know from Citizenship in da Nation, a "right" is a constitutional limit on the authority and power of government, not on private entities.

 

We can and indeed must restrict parent access in all kinds of ways. We do not allow non-swimmer parents to participate in water activities. This year, we will not be letting obese parents participate in remote adventures. Plenty of units everywhere end up restricting parent access because of (poor) parent behavior. Sometimes Youth Protection means protectin' kids from other boys parents. Lots of units find it prudent to require background checks on parents who are out campin' with them. Some religious units don't allow women/moms to participate in their young mens' programs, and that's OK with us, too.

 

If the parents aren't willing to accept da restrictions, they can always keep the boy home, eh? But if they want other people to provide program for their kid for the weekend, then they have to live with da rules set up by those other people. Same as school or anything else in life.

 

Now, within' scoutin' we can always discuss with each other whether certain restrictions are justified or prudent, eh?

 

Beavah

 

[Twocubdad]

I keep reading this hoping I'll find a solution to the problem we're having with parents on campouts.

 

I've got a couple dads of our first year-scouts who attend about half the campouts and never contribute a thing. The sit around playing cards waiting to be fed. I asked them to do specific things, but they'll work at it for awhile and go back to their card game.

 

They're constantly involving themselves with their Scouts. They're constantly trying to solve petty disputes between their sons and other boys (of course their sons are never at fault), slipping them snacks, and helping set up tents. On campouts where we don't have the room to separate the patrols from the adults the way we would like, it's a disaster.

 

We've tried all the usual approaches -- talking one-on-one, explaining the rationale of leaving the boys alone, giving them things to do, suggesting they register and get trained.... They rarely show up for troop meetings. I've had an ASM who has known these guys through Cubs talk with them. That ended up with one of the dads yelling "you're not going to tell me when I can spend time with my son!" Clearly, they just don't understand the program and see us as a camping club to go hang with their boys.

 

I don't want to implement a lot of petty rules and I want to keep campouts open to parents. I think its good for the program to be transparent and it's a great recruitment tool for leaders. I'm at a loss with these guys. It's going to be ugly, but I'm ready to tell them they're not welcome on campouts.

 

Suggestions?

[Oak Tree]

Ugh. That's a situation that I can easily envision. We get lots of first-time parents who behave that way, but thus far the methods that you've suggested have worked for us.

 

In the end, I think you're right. If you've tried everything else, they need something more to know that you're serious about the way adults should behave, and probably the most effective tool would be to ban (or threaten to ban) them from camping trips. I'd want to make sure I had the committee behind me (at least the chair and some of the more influential members, depending on how your committee is structured) and then I'd lay it out for them: The program is intended to run in Style X; all parents on the trips must agree to use this style; if you cannot, then you will not be able to attend the trips. I think that unfortunately you probably have to come up with some "petty rules" for the adults, if they aren't able to get the whole philosophy.

 

I might even write up a set of expectations, and have the parents sign off on them when they attend. "As an adult resource, I promise to be there for all the Scouts. I promise not to bring any extra food for my son. I promise not to approach my son to offer him help or correction (except for an urgent safety need), but to ask another adult to do so if he appears to need an adult." etc, etc. Something that most adults on a trip should find easy to agree with, but that these two in particular might take huge issue with.

[evmori]

I haven't read the other replies to this so forgive me if this is a repeat. New parents are always allowed on campouts. By NOT letting them go you are violating YP, plus everyone has the right to see and witness the program.

 

How is not letting parents on campouts a YP violation?

 

Twocubdad,

 

Tell them if all they are going to do is play cards to stay home. If they are willing to help out they can come.

[SMT224]

Twocubdad -

 

The real power in your Troop is the PLC. Perhaps you could work with the PLC to craft some simple rules that require all going on a camping trip to be assigned a job on the duty roster prior to the trip, not only including the Scout Patrols, but adult leaders and visiting parents.

 

Then the SPL can very clearly let them know what job the will need to do before you leave. And if they chose to play cards instead of gathering or chopping wood (with a clear natural consequence of no fire that night), then the SPL or PLC will have the authority to inform them they are not welcome on future camping trips.

 

Much better that assigned chores (and the consequences of not doing them) come from the Scouts than adults, as that apparently has not worked.

 

[Eagle92]

2cub

A few ideas. #1 assign them resposnibilities that if they don't get doen affect all the adults, i.e. cooking, firewood collecting, cleanup, etc. Use a duty rooster for the adults, list their names and get after them.

 

#2 pick campsites furhter away from home. Lots of folks don't like the drives, and it coudl be a deterrent

 

#3 BACKPACKING. i've found that most adults today don't like it. But the kids who are prepared for it do. Dedicate a month's worht of meeting to the topic, covering everything from what to bring and how to pack, to patrol gear, to shakedowns.make sure the adults understand that they must carry their share of the adult gear: tents, water, food etc.

 

This is a major problem I'm seeing. this past weekend at the lcoal camporee, I saw dads following their sons to events. Funny thing is the event I watched the most, the firebuilding, the ones that didn't have dad around and used wood for cooking could buil;d and lite a fire. Thsoe patrols that did have dads around and cooked exclusinly on stoves couldn't start the fire.

[boomerscout]

with one of the dads yelling "you're not going to tell me when I can spend time with my son!"

these Dads may be the only ones you can get to drive the boys to camp. Also, since we don't have guardianship rights, parents can sniff around all programs that involve their minor children to assure themselves of safety--unless restrictions are stated in writing beforehand.

Maybe start doing more primitive camping where you hike ten miles in & ten miles back out so no one has time to play cards?

[Twocubdad]

Interestingly, we went backpacking the first of the month and none of these dads attended. The Tuesday night before we left the worst offender approached me and said he was going with us. I told him that we were hiking by trail crew (pairing two patrols into a crew) and that the adult slots for the new Scout crew were taken so he would have to hike and camp with the older scouts. And, oh by the way, have you signed up for the SM/ASM training next week?

 

He didn't show up for the campout.

 

Unfortunately for this aspect of things, we do a lot of activity camping where we camp fairly close in and then go shooting, climbing, skiing or the like. You guys are right that sort of camping make it easy for these guys to just hang out.