Define a “Boy Led Troop”

[Eagle732]

 

We have a small troop of about 18 boys (of which about a dozen are active) in two patrols. I (the SM) dont know if it could be defined as Boy Led but he are some of the responsibilities that they have:

 

Elections every 6 months for SPL and PL with most other positions appointed by SPL. The troop has minimum qualifications for SPL (active, 1st Class).

PLC plans annual camping program with some troop guidelines to ensure a variety to the schedule. PLC needs to schedule one each, bike hike, backpacking trip, canoe trip, summer camp. Where they go is up to the PLC, the specific dates are chosen by the SM.

PLC plans meetings including topic of instruction and game or activity. Patrols alternate monthly on taking lead on troop meetings and planning quarterly Courts of Honor.

Patrols choose Grubmaster, plan menu and shop for their own food. An adult will usually check the menu and might make suggestions. Hopefully PL makes sure his Scouts get fed!

Patrols camp as individual groups and have their own camping equipment which they are responsible for.

Troop tries to follow a definite chain of command with the SM working with the SPL who in turn works with the PLs.

SM tries to keep other parents out of the process but is not always successful!

 

I would like to know how this fairs with other troops. One of the problems I see is that the boys will only do the minimum, if any, planning or preparation. The other problem I have is that our COR is vehemently against the Boy Led Troop concept. I think there is more the Scouts could do but every time there is a failure I hear and thats why I dont like this Boy Led Troop idea.

 

So how does your troop define Boy Led?

 

[Eagle92]

Sounds good to me, But may I suggest that you let the scouts decide the date of activities. This can be a challenge, especially when you

are dealing with 8 or more different school calanders , but it gives them more ownership.

 

As for doign the minimum, try inspiring the older ones and give them incentives to go beyond the minimum, i.e. HA activities. Get them motivated, and it will trickle down to the younger scouts.

[BrentAllen]

Sounds like you are "boy led" to me. I guess I'm just a little surprised by how everyone gets so hung up on "boy led." Between "boy led" and "patrol method" I would put much more weight on "patrol method." You can have a Troop that is boy led but doesn't follow the patrol method, but I don't think you can have a Troop that is patrol method that isn't boy led. Focus on patrol method and boy led will naturally follow. Plus, your COR will probably be much more comfortable with the term, even though there is no actual difference. You could have some real fun with your COR - "COR, you'll be happy to hear we are doing away with boy led. We are now just going to be a patrol method Troop."

[Eagle92]

Forgot about the failure comment. BOYS NEED TO FAIL AS IT IS A LEARNING PROCESS (caps for emphasis not shouting). Sometimes some of life's best lessons come form a failure.

 

The key is to turn those failures into teachable moments. Mentor and advise, i.e. ask them how they think thay can improve and ask questions thatmake them think about their ideas.

 

while I'm typing I saw Brent's post EXCELLENT IDEA!

 

The otehr thing is this, is your COR trained? If not I strrongly recommend that he gets some training as it will open his eyes.

[Eagledad]

Not bad really, I think you are getting there. But what are your goals? The troop of today shouldn't look like the troop of tomorrow because Scouting is about boys growing into men of character. Boy Run has a purpose in boy growth, if boys are growing, then they are changing which is probably why your COR doesn't like it. Likely nobody has explained it to him in that way. This isn't Cub Scouts, the Troop is the real world scaled down to a boys size. What do you want the 17 year old man in your troop to look like? Folks will not understand a program when they don't see the vision.

 

Barry

[Beavah]

Yah, what Eagledad said, eh?

 

I actually can't tell from what you've posted whether you're gettin' there or not, eh? What yeh posted are da superficial trappings of boy led. Elections can be somethin' really serious for important roles, or they can be popularity contests for make-believe roles. PLC annual plannin' can be somethin' where they really determine goals and focus and direction of their troop, or it can be an activity-slottin'-into-calendar session. PLC making meeting plans can mean the boys have real ownership and can change da way adults think about meetings, or it can mean adults handing 'em Woods Wisdom / Program Helps and having 'em pick a page.

 

Real boy led means the boys can set da goals, and change the way the adults think about and interact with the program. They set the "policy" for da operations side, includin' the best way to add variety, and who takes the lead on which troop meetings, and whether there's a game that night, and whether or not COH's should be quarterly, and how they handle safety and first aid. They tell da parents what they need help with and when to butt out.

 

Yah, I like Eagledad's way of thinkin' about this, eh? What vision do yeh have of an 18-year-old Eagle Scout headin' off to college or the Navy or a job? What should that young adult be able to do on his own as an adult? Then to get there, that's what your 14, 15, 16, and 17 year-olds have to be allowed to do (and struggle with, and fail or succeed at) in order to get there.

 

Beavah

 

 

 

 

[Stosh]

We needed some special equipment that another troop in the area had that we could borrow. I suggested to my SPL that he contact that troop and ask if we could borrow it. The other troop was adult-led. He went to their meeting in order to ask in person and to check out the adult-led program. Everything worked out just fine and when he came back the only thing he said was that he was even now more than ever appreciative of the boy-led, patrol-method program.

 

One of the problems with this "definition" is who you ask. If you ask adults they will generally all say their boys lead the program. But just ask the boys, you'll often get a different answer.

[Eagle732]

Well I could write a book in response to the posts so far but I'll try to be brief.

 

E92: Scheduling camping trips: Both myself and my 1st Assistant work swing shift and most weekends, we use lots of vacation just to get off for camping trips which must be scheduled up to a year in advance so letting boys choose when they go on trips would probably result in not enough adults available.

I agree boys need to be able to fail in order to learn, hey that's real life!

 

Brent: COR is a past SM and not trained although he is going to take training. He was SM of the troop years ago, and your right I think he's hung up on "Boy Led". "Patrol Method" might be more to his liking!

 

EDad: Goals? I wish they had goals. Any suggestions? They are working on completing a long distance bike trail section at a time.

 

Beavah: Elections seem to be mostly about who wants to do the job, not necessarily the best person for the job.Lately the youngest patrol member gets PL. I'm willing to allow most any change they would like to try. COR says he use to appoint the most qualifies Scouts as SPL and PLs. We have and use the Troop Resource books. My vision for an 18 y.o. heading out to the real world, hopefully he will have the life skills needed to get started in life on his own.

 

JB47: Great story. I guess boy led is in the eyes of the beholder.

 

Thanks for the great advice.

 

[Eagledad]

I meant your goals. Boys are in the troop for the adventure. Adults are in it to help boys become men of character. You cant get out of a rut if you dont know where you are going.

 

For example:

The mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law.

 

The BSA wants ever part of the troop program to contribute to that Mission. Does your troop program do that?

 

Here is the thing, if you dont have a goal, how do you measure if you are making progress. The BSA has given you a vision or goal for the boys. But that doesnt mean you can't have your own goals to reach those higher goals.

 

I imagine one reason your scouts struggle in planning is because it isnt fun. You could change that by surprising them with a couple of pizzas, and that works at least once. But the important question for you is how does planning prepare a boy to make ethical and moral choices? If you dont know, then maybe you the adult are stuck, not the boys. If the adults dont have a clue, how can the boys do any better? How can they get out of the rut when the adults don't know how planning makes them into better men?

 

I had an agreement with my PLC: If I couldnt show them how "anything" they did in the troop improved their character, they could throw it out of the program. That was as much a challenge to me as it was to them. I had to either throw it out or change everything in the troop so that it in some way developed character. In truth, not much changed at all because the program is pretty good, but I now understood simple things like learning knots and packing a tent develops charactor.

 

Boy run is very important to me because I know how the responsibility of making independent decisions gives a boy the understanding of making the right decisions.

 

Being a good leader of a boy run troop is not instant. It takes time to find your footing and learning what works and what doesnt. But if you dont know where you are going in the first place, you are already stuck in the mud. What do you want to see in your 18 year old scouts? How are you going to get there?

 

I love this scouting stuff.

 

Barry

 

[Eamonn]

I'm working on the Boy Led V Patrol method.

 

I think in all the time up until the Ship, I never had a Boy Led (Youth led) Unit.

For a number of years, I thought I was following the Patrol Method, but when I really sat down and thought about it I wasn't! When I first became a Leader I was using the PLC as a messenger service! They attended the PLC and carried my ideas back to the Patrols, over time this changed and I became more of a coach. Still the play book was mine and I really wasn't allowing the PLC to do its job.

One of the big problems I faced when at last I got things in order was the size of the Troop. We had 14 Patrols and I feel that the P/L's never really took the time to ask the Patrol members for their input.

Even at the PLC at times it seemed that a few members ruled the roost.

Of course like many things in Scouting, just when you think that you have it right and in good working order something happens and it seems that everything falls apart, leaving you the task of starting all over again.

I think because the Ship was small and maybe having female members? We did a far better job of doing what the Ships members wanted to do and do it the way they wanted to have it done.

Eamonn.

[Eagle732]

Barry, I guess I misunderstood your question about goals so let me take another stab at it. My goals for them could be summed up in a story about our latest Eagle Scout who turned 18 recently. When I became SM this young man was what I would consider lazy and would not do anything unless it benefited him. When he began working on his Eagle project we had a talk. We talked about how he was an example to the other Scouts. We talked about how he was an important part of the troop and how important it would be in life to always do something more than was expected, more than the bare minimum. The I asked him to be the Troop Instructor, I thought he would say no but he surprised me and said he'd like to give it a try. Well he was great at it! It a short period of time I saw this Scout do a complete turn around. When he turned 18 he asked to become an ASM and he does a good job with that too. He has a job in the local hospital and has a great deal of responsibility. I know the personnel manager for the hospital and he says he does a great job. So if you ask what my vision is than this is it. That the Scouts in my troop get enough out of their time here to one day say "hey I was in Scouts and it was great fun and it really helped me".

[Twocubdad]

Your troop sounds a lot like ours, except for the COR thing. As a general proposition, we go camping the first weekend of every month. We don't put any constraints on what the boys do, to the displeasure of some of our adults. They start with a clean slate when trying to decide what campouts they want to go on.

 

I think it is reasonable that the adults provide some framework for the boys to build their activities around. Afterall, that what the overall Scout program is. We require the Scouts to have an outdoor program. We require (at various levels) uniforms. We require service to be part of the program. There is a structure to the Scouting program which makes it Scouting. The things you list are reasonable extensions of that program.

 

To me, the real youth-leadership takes place within that framework of program. It's difficult to put overarching definitions or standards to the what consititues youth leadership, because it changes everytime new leaders are elected. Part of our job to figure out what the Scouts need to be successful and provide those resources. I've had SPLs with learning disabilities and I've had one apply to the Naval Academy. Someone please give me a definition of Boy led that covers both.

 

I've been thinking about a kernel I got off another thread (and I'm sorry for not giving proper credit). When Scouts fail, it should be because they failed to follow the program, training and guidance they were given. If they were never given those tools, the failure is that of the adults. There should be room for controlled failure, but the emphasis should be on control, not failure. Safety, obviously, is a factor. But while a failure may be a learning experience for the youth leaders, we also need to make sure it doesn't mean the troop is delivering a poor experience to the younger scouts.

[SR540Beaver]

Eagle92,

 

One comment about adults planning the dates over the boys. If the boys plan when adults (most specifically the SM and ASM's) can't go, the boys aren't going either. That is really the only input our adults have in the boy's annual planning process. We are a troop with a roster of 60 and have 40+ on any given outing. It takes a lot of adults to transport that many boys and equipment and we are sensitive to the adult's schedules when planning dates.

[Stosh]

Huh? I'm lost on this. The adults coordinate, plan, and execute the program because of their calendar constraints? I don't think so. Part of being boy-led is the responsibility of the boys to coordinate with the adults, calendar dates, logistics of travel and equipage. "Mr. B, we're looking at the first week of July for summer camp. What does your calendar look like for that week?" Is this any different than a group of adults calling you up and saying, "Hey, Joe, we're all planning on heading up to Canada for fishing the first week in June. You got your calendar open?" Nope, sorry, you'll all have to pick a different date or stay home. Yeah, right! As long as they have appropriate adult requirements fulfilled, for their trip, it's a go for the event. If it's a truly boy-led program, minimal adult input is required and mostly just fulfills 2 adult bodies at the event requirement on the tour permit. If your boys can't be trusted when the SM isn't around, then there's something more seriously flawed than the calendar.

 

Stosh

[Eagle732]

"The adults coordinate, plan, and execute the program because of their calendar constraints".

I don't think the adults setting the dates constitutes coordinating, planning and executing an entire program. The Scouts could choose any date they want but then they would need to find the adults to go with them. Good luck with that in our troop. If it wasn't for myself and my assistant using most of our vacation time to get weekends off throughout the year our Scouts wouldn't go camping at all and we wouldn't have a troop! A little bit too high of a price to pay for being total boy led. Our Scouts are no where near coordinating with the adults, calendar dates, logistics of travel and equipage yet but we are working on it.