How to Convince Parents that the Patrol Method DOES Work

[Eagle92]

Ok came home from a homeschooling meeting where I was talking to a parent that just had their son join a troop. they visited several ones, one that is a relatively new troop but on the right path (just need a little experience in their youth leaders IMO), another that is well established and is "organized chaos' that is the patrol method, and the third that is a "supertroop" with 62 members and averages 8+ Eagles a year, but have the adults doing more than they should.

 

The parent picked the adult led one stating that he didn't like the adults sitting in the rear doing nothing, and that the scouts do need more guidance than the first two troops adults provided.

 

So how would you guys handle a "walk in" i.e. a youth with no prior scouting experience, and their parent. how would you guys go about explaining to the parent the patrol method.

 

 

[mikecummings157]

I would ask the parent what he/she wanted their son to get out of the program. The Patrol Method is the only way for him to get an opportunity to develop leadership skills. A discussion of the difference between Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts might also. As Boy Scout leaders, we often have to let the boys fail by doing something their way, rather than our way, so they learn from it. However, I have found they often surprise me and succeed doing it their way by working together.

 

I'm assuming from your user name that you are an Eagle Scout. As an Eagle Scout, you can speak from some authority that it worked for you and what your experience was. Most parents will listen and at least give you the benefit of the doubt.

 

As B-P said, "Never do anything a boy can do"

[Eagle92]

Mike,

No cub scout experience with this scout or his parents. I tried to explain how the patrol method should work,and how it did work for me in my old troop. But he wanted "structure" and his son to get Eagle, and this troop is a very active, very structured troop that does produce Eagles. the first troop probably won't get an eagle for a year or two at the earliest. Again the oldest scout is 15 now. The second troop is established so they produce a few eagles. But they use the patrol method and so advancement goes at the scout's pace.

 

 

[Hal_Crawford]

Eagle 92:

I've noticed that this is particularly a challenge with parents who home school their children. For whatever reasons (sometimes good, sometimes not so good)they will not trust a school with their children and they sometimes have trouble trusting their son to the troop. They tend to be active in scouts with their boys but have a problem stepping back and letting the patrol method work. They often tend to be helicopter parents.

 

Over the years that I have been with our troop, two of the dads who were most critical of our SM and the troop were both home schooling their sons. They were also the most likely to intervene in the boy run troop. I should mention that neither had been scouts themselves.

 

We recently camped next to a troop that was all home-schooled scouts. The troop was a couple of years old and had already split from their CO and formed a separate organization (something like friends of Troop XXX) to charter their troop. The leaders were friendly and helpful but I also sensed a real "my way or the highway attitude" that I often see in adult run troops.

 

Eagle92, I gather you home school and I am not criticizing you or your reasons for home schooling. You clearly get it when it comes to scouts. Home schooled kids are usually very intelligent and score well on standardized tests. Scouting is often seen as a way to give them contact with others their own age that they perhaps lack through home schooling. It seems a shame to rob them of leadership opportunities by throwing them into an adult run troop or being a helicopter parent. Give the parents the counsel of your experience both as a scout and a scouter. Tell them what they should expect and not expect their sons to get out of scouts.

 

What should they expect?

Their son should have fun

Their son should camp and hike and climb and canoe (among other things) and enjoy the outdoors in the fellowship of other boys.

Their son should learn how to lead and how to be led; how to be part of a team that works together to achieve goals.

Their son to experience failure. Things go wrong when boys are in charge. That's how they learn.

 

What should they not expect?

They shouldn't expect things to be as orderly as it would be if only the adults were in charge. Boy leadership is not a pretty sight.

They shouldn't expect their son to get Eagle. He may, he may not but it shouldn't be THE expectation.

 

(I have probably missed a number of things in the above lists)

 

If they wish to be scouters, encourage them to get trained right away. Understanding the methods and aims of scouting will help them understand their role.

 

Again, I don't mean to criticize those who home school. They are not all helicopter parents and not all helicopter parents are home schoolers. But the motives that cause parents to home school sometimes bleed over into scouting and can be a challenge to overcome.

 

Hope you can guide them to choose wisely.

Hal

 

[Eagle92]

Hal,

Thanks for the input. Yep we're homeschooling for the reason that the pub school system is not the greatest in my local (but it is 110% than the one in my hometown), and we can't afford the private schools. I want my sons to get interactions with kids his age, but I also want him to learn.

 

Yep the dad seems to be a his way or highway type person. Seems as if he's not letting the young man grow. Hopefully the troop in question will slowly move towards being Boy-led,as they will be getting a new SM shortly.

[Twocubdad]

Yeah, frequently the highway is the best option.

 

If you have a parent like this who just shows up in the middle of a typically chaotic troop meeting, it's a tough sell. They see all hell breaking loose and it's hard to get them to see the organization.

 

Normally, I try to manage the expectations of parents by explaining what's going on before they come to troop meetings. We have a couple opportunities to meet with the parents before first troop meeting.

 

Our biggest and best opportunity is on our campout with the Webelos in November prior to crossover in March. We send all the Scouts off on a hike around camp and do our major orientation with the parents then. For one, the chaos on a campout doesn't seem so bad since we're in the woods. But more significantly, the Scouts are typically well prepared and have planned the demonstrations they are doing with the Webelos. The parents are seeing the finished product at the campout. They didn't see the sausage being made at the troop meetings prior to the campout. In fact, they tend to come away impressed with the job the junior leaders are doing.

 

The way I explain it to the adults is Scouts learn leadership the same way they learn piano or hitting a baseball -- practice. The SPL and PLs leading the group are practicing leadership, as are the troop instructors and guides who are teaching the younger guys. Yes, it's messy, but it is just as important for the older Scouts to learn the leadership skills as it is for the younger guys to learn basic Scoutcraft. Controlled failure is part of the process. We'll make sure the older guys learn from a bad meeting the same way the younger guys will learn from a burned dinner. Be sure to make the point that the adults aren't there just occupying space, but are watching to make sure the controlled failure of the older Scouts doesn't have too much of an adverse consequence for the younger guys -- the same way we make sure the controlled failure of the younger guys learning to cook doesn't result in food poisioning.

 

Even with advanced warning, over the years I've had a couple parent's who just couldn't handle it. One was a fellow who had been a great DL all through Cubs. As a general rule, this guy was wrapped around the axle pretty tightly. He ran a very tight ship in the den. The boys were well prepared for the troop, but the DL just couldn't make the transistion. I think he was rather burned out, too. He made a handful of meetings and one campout before he quit showing up. Unfortunately, his son followed about a year later.(This message has been edited by Twocubdad)

[Eamonn]

I'm not sure that you can convince them!

After a while they will kinda fall into it and get the idea.

But right out of the gate?

My feeling is that the adults have to put the parents at ease.

Number one is the parents do have to feel that the adults in the Troop do care and will take care of the Lad.

Number two is that the parents do have to feel that the adults in the Troop know what they are doing.

 

I don't know very much about Homeschooling, but have heard that some of the people in charge of this are using Merit Badges as part of the curriculum. This might,have some parents seeing Scouts and Scouting as something that most of us don't see it as.

While some parents want their son to join Scouts for the social-interaction, some opt for Scouting because they believe that we only have "Nice little boys"! The hard truth is that we also have our fair share of "Not so nice little boys".

Eamonn

[Hal_Crawford]

While some parents want their son to join Scouts for the social-interaction, some opt for Scouting because they believe that we only have "Nice little boys"! The hard truth is that we also have our fair share of "Not so nice little boys".

 

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Yes, and they are the first to insist that those "not so nice little boys" be thrown out of the troop.

 

Hal

[boomerscout]

Yes, and they are the first to insist that those "not so nice little boys" be thrown out of the troop. -- Hal

 

Unless, of course, those boys are their own little angels

 

as part of our info pack for parents of new scouts, we enclose a copy of some of BP's writings on the patrol method

 

[Crossramwedge]

You are not going to convince parents like that that a "Boy Led" troop is the way to go. They want structure, control. They want a monthly written report as to how Johnny is doing. Boy led Troops can be chaotic and look disorderly at times.

 

Take our case, we are a small Troop amongst bigger fish. But you know what, at almost every Camporee or event where several Troops are involved we normally always finish in the top three. In fact in the last 2 events we have taken the top awards given by the Districts involved. In one of the last events we went to a Camporee (out of District)and walked away with their top District Award that gets passed off every year to the event winners of the Camporee. First time in the History of that Districts Fall Camporee that an Out of District troop won it.They made us promise to come back so that their District gets a chance to win it back. We are now making plans to go back in September and give them a chance to do just that.

 

I believe in my heart of hearts that the main reason we do do well in competitons is that we are Boy led. It is in that atmosphere that the boys learn hands on. The older boy's mentoring the younger kids. The ups and downs of lessons learned when a project goes well or when it falls apart. Thats how the boys really learn.

 

If a boy who comes from a boy led troop earns "Eagle" and competes

against Adult led "Eagles" in any competition, the Boy led Eagle will come out on top almost every time. A "Factory" Eagle is just that, Machine built.A boy led Eagle, like a Rolex watch, is hand built with blood, sweat and tears. HIS. Does the Adult led Eagle deserve his reward, yes he does. But a boy led "Eagle" just like that Rolex being hand built is more refined, smoother around the edges and over all is of better quality. Why because he and his fellow Troop members built him to what he is, a True Eagle.

 

Oh, by the way my kids are homeschooled. It is true there are

a lot of strict, hands on parents out there, but there are also a lot of us who let our kids advance on their own (with a little push here and there) Will I be dissapointed if my son does not earn "Eagle" yes I will, but he is the one earning it , not me.

Its his battle, not mine. I will still be very proud of him. I will know that even if he does not earn it, it is not the end all to be all.I would rather he earn it than to go through some "Eagle" factory and have had it handed to him. That does not teach him a thing.

.

[Twocubdad]

Exellent observation, E.

 

After last year's campout with the Webelos, the feed back I got from the Cubmaster was that, while the parents were generally very impressed with the troop program, some were concerned that some of language being used by the Scouts was inappropriate.

 

So I asked my SPL if he had heard anything on the campout which was beyond the pale. "Oh, yeah," he says. "A couple of those Webelos have a real mouth on them. I learned a couple of new words myself."

 

Again, trying to manage expectations, my message to new parents is "welcome to middle school." Crossing over into the troop in March of the 5th grade, new Scouts and their parents get a very mild sneak preview of what everyone else will get when they move up to middle school in the fall. You think you hear rough language on a Scout campout? Hold on to your shorts, it's going to be a bumpy ride.

 

Our kids are Scouts, not Saints. Living the Scout Oath and Law is a goal, not a prerequisite.