Prerequisites for Leadership Positions

[Buffalo Skipper]

What prerequisites (if any) do your troops have for Positions of Responsibilty, specifically for Patrol Leader and Senior Patrol Leader?

 

We are a small troop, but growing troop. We have not had any prerequisites set up for PL or SPL. As our scouts were mostly lower in rank. We now have several scouts who are now up to 2C and I expect we will have several 1C and another Star within a few months. Rather than making elections a free for all, I am considering setting some "standards" for these 2 positions.

 

Ideas and thoughts?

[Eagle92]

In my old troop you had to be at least First Class and a PL for six months to run for SPL. SPL had to appoint a ASPL who also met those requirements.

 

As for PL, the individual patrols selected them.

 

Now back then the Leadership Corps was a POR, and to be in it you had to meet the following requirements.

 

1) Been a PL for 6 months.

2) Be First Class or higher

3) Be elected into the LC by the current members.

 

We used the LC as just that, a corps of older scouts who had the KSAs to provide troop level leadership, i.e. quatermaster, scribe, instructor, etc. They worked with the other patrols in the troop, but at times did their own thing.

 

One example, and the best trip for me with the LC, was the Vicksburg Military Park. I transfered into the troop from another, and had done the 14 mile trek with my old troop. The new troop hadn't been there in a while, only the LC members had been that trek before before. So they decided to do teh 12 mile cross coutnry trek, and I got to go with them. I must have made a good impression, b/c as soon as my term of office as PL was over, iw as elected into the LC, and I was the youngest member of it!

[eghiglie]

Being a small troop we have a process that works for us

 

We have a SPL and one ASPL. Every Sept we elect a new ASPL and the existing ASPL becomes the SPL. It works for us, we don't meet in the summer when school is out, usually we go to Summer Camp right after school is out.

 

With only 6 boys we have no PL. The SPL then appoints a Quartermaster and Scribe. The old SPL becomes the Troop Guide.

 

We tried having two elections a year, but getting the boys used to a job that often was hard.

 

I need to point out that in the 7 or 8 scribes we've had only 1 did the job the right way. He was the boy who was the first scribe of the Troop.

 

 

 

 

[Gunny2862]

When I first started we had a small unevenly aged troop, prerequisites would have been tantamount to simply appointing Scouts to POR's.

 

Currently we still have no prerequisites, but the boys are selecting well. The only safeguard we are running is that the Scoutmaster retains approval over nominations. (Because in Troop history a prank was pulled and a First year "Scout" was elected SPL - before my time)

 

If we went to prerequisites, I would like to see the four(this number might change according to circumstances or growth) oldest/highest ranked Scouts eligible for SPL, only First Class or above eligible for anything else in the Leadership roles.

 

[John-in-KC]

Why are you setting standards and not mentoring your PLC so that the youth members buy in?

 

This should be a youth decision, not a SM fiat.

[artjrk]

At one time our troop required (or strongly suggested) that to be SPL, the scout needed to complete Impessa (sp?) However in the last four years, we've only had one scout even go. I do wish we could go back to this because I have noticed a drop in the abilities and maturity level of the SPL's (including my son)

[eghiglie]

 

Sort of a follow up

 

One thing that has been noticed in our elections is that the tallest boy always wins.

 

 

[BrentAllen]

Buffalo,

We are just about to the point where we can put in some qualifications to run for SPL or PL. This is where I would like for us to end up:

 

SPL:

1. First Class or above

2. Attended NYLT

3. Served at least one term as PL

 

PL:

1. First Class or above

 

Since we aren't fully "there" yet, we will probably go with the following:

 

SPL:

1. First Class or above

2. Attended NYLT

 

PL:

1. Second Class or above

 

John-in-KC - I think the SM should have some vision about where he would like to see the qualifications set, so he can mentor and coach. With a young Troop, they probably don't have much of an opinion on the matter. Making some suggestions and providing the reason behind them will help the boys understand the reasons for the qualifications.

 

BTW, Green Bar Bill stated the candidates for SPL should be FC or higher, and have served 26 weeks as PL. Those requirements were actually part of the By-Laws.

[Buffalo Skipper]

Thanks all for the quick and detailed repsonses. As if often the case, I had an untold story behind the request. Briefly, one scout vindictively "rigged" the last patrol election so that the qualified individual (who wouldn't put up with his crud) was not elected, but that someone whom he could "walk" over was chosen. It took me some time to put it together, but I figured at summer camp what had happened.

 

At the time, the troop (active members only, 2 patrols) had 3 first class scouts. One was elected SPL, one was the PL of the new scout patrol, but the other was "snubbed," as described above. Everyone else was Tenderfoot or Scout. These same members are now all Tenderfoot or 2C (2 close to 1C) and 2 of the 1C are now Star and the other is close. Six months from now, I expect all the Tenderfoots will be 2C or higher, and the 2C should be 1C. Most of the new scouts are progressing nicely and will likely be 2C.

 

We are already active on our Webelos recruiting, and we hope to have enough to expand by one or more patrols. With many "advanced" scouts, we can set higher standards for our PLs, with increased skills and maturity. This is a decision to be made by the PLC. It is not what I will be imposing on the troop, nor will it be fully engaged for neary half a year. My reason for discussing it now is to bring discuss it with the PLC and to use it as an opportunity to encourgage advancement.

 

It is all part of a greater plan intended to promote leadership, responsibiliy and advancement in the troop.

[kenk]

Why would a patrol leader need to be First Class? I see the rank as a skills-based achievement rather than a matter of age or maturity.

 

My advice would be to allow the patrols to decide who is their patrol leaders, to allow the PLC and/or Scoutmaster to review/veto the list of Scouts up for SPL, and then put the SPL up for a general vote. I would agree that it would be preferred to have an SPL who is at least First Class, but not sure the requirement is really necessary.

 

Technically, per the program, the ASPL is appointed by the SPL, but my son's troop does the same thing mention here - they actually vote for an ASPL who will be the next SPL - unless there is some reason for a revote at the time of the next election (so the troop can change their mind if there has been an issue).

 

BTW, I also would prefer Scouts rotate through positions - to maximize the chance to experience & learn - rather than stay in the same position time after time.

[Buffalo Skipper]

Brent,

I had very much wanted to do exactly what you said, but I had not really considered NYLT as a prerequisite. The reason for this is that our council is really behind the 8-ball when it comes to NYLT. We have never had a course here, nor has any neighboring council. We could go as far as Atlanta, Jacksonville, or Orlando, but that is a 6-8 hour drive--not too practical for an individual to get to a course. Since we have not had but 2-3 scouts in our council attend NYLT, it is difficult to put together a course with staff (youth or adults).

 

I know I am getting slightly off topic here, but can anyone make some suggestions on how to work around this (not as a prerequisite for a POR, but as a way to get our leaders NYLT trained?

 

Back on topic...

I agree with you about skills not being leadership. But unless you have a 1 in 100 naturally gifted leader, it will be difficult to get them to effectively lead more experienced and scouts. I also agree that it is not always best to have the same scout in the same position over and over, but if they are the only and/or best qualified, why would you NOT allow them to repeat the position? If nothing else, it will facilitate the other scouts learning from their leader (instad of the leader learning from the more capeable scout). Right now we have no actual ASPL position. We just don't have enough experienced scouts to waste the position on someone who would be a far greater benefit as a PL. As we grow, I expect this will change, possibly as early as next winter/spring.(This message has been edited by Buffalo Skipper)

[Eagle92]

A few ideas for training.

 

1) Do it yourself, i.e TLT, JLT or whatever it is called now on the troop level. Since this is the troop level. and the SM IS responicble for training, you could add relevent information that is missging form the sylabus.

 

2) harder to do, btu I've seen it done: have a district level Youth Leadership Training Day (or whatever you wan tto call it.) if you got NYLT trained scouts, use them, otehrwise work with the SM and district training chair to create day long trainging course.

 

It may not be NYLT, but it could be somehting.

[Eamonn]

The main job of the SM is to train the youth leaders.

As I see it the only prerequisite needed is a warm body.

Along with being elected by his peers.

Eamonn

[IM_Kathy]

my son's troop...

 

for SPL:

 

Rank: 1st Class or higher

Experience: Previous service as SPL, ASPL, PL, or APL

Attendance: 75% over previous 6 months

 

for PL:

 

Rank: none

Experience: none

Attendance: 75% over previous 6 months

 

for ASPL:

 

Rank: 1st Class or higher

Experience: none

Attendance: 50% over the previous 6 months

 

for APL:

 

Rank: none

Experience: none

Attendance: 50% over previous 6 months

 

 

[Lisabob]

My son's troop has a requirement that boys be "Scouts" before they can be elected as a PL. Justification is that they should have at least the barest idea of what boy scouting is and should have shown at least that minimum level of commitment too.

 

They also require that SPL & ASPL be either 1st Cl or Star rank (I think it is star but I can't remember for sure), the idea being that you want boys with some leadership experience and perhaps a little more maturity in those position.

 

They are requesting that boys who are elected as SPL or ASPL attend NYLT, but that's a new thing. It isn't a pre-req because there aren't enough boys who have gone. (Currently 2)

 

This might not work so well in a small troop. My son's troop has 30-50 boys at a given time and includes a good selection of younger and older boys. I'm ok with the pre-reqs. What I have seen in the last 5 years suggests to me that your typical 11 year old tenderfoot will struggle just as a PL's, let alone as SPL or ASPL.