thoughts on a "1st year" patrol

[NickP412]

well my scout master along with many other leaders in my troop feel its best to keep all the fresh crossed over boys into the same patrol for 1 year. when i crossed over 7 years ago i was integrated into a patrol with older boys. i made friends despite our age and rank differences. since we have been keeping all the "new" scouts in the same patrol i feel as if we dont know each other. 5 boys came over in February 2009 and i havent really gotten to know them.

 

 

what do you guys think about that?

 

the counter argument is that the new scouts could be intimidated if there taken out of their comfort zone.

[boomerscout]

a year is much too long. by the end of summer camp --at the latest--the newbies should be integrated with their "real" patrols. Even sooner if they pass T'foot earlier

going into camp some of the "1st year" will be close to First Class. Keeping them with the babies will be insulting.

we try for transitioning the first or second month. Even sooner if they say they're ready to run with the big boys

[True Believer]

We tried doing a first year patrol, and it failed for a variety of reasons.

Now, we have a new scout patrol, composed of incoming former Webelos, until about May, and well before summer camp.

We ask each new scout to write down one or two buddies that they would like to be with in a patrol. Then the Senior Patrol leader and the Scoutmaster assign these pairs to an existing patrol. These seems to work very well.

[Beavah]

Yah, NickP412, there are lots of ways of runnin' a troop, eh?

 

The BSA in some literature recommends a New Scout Patrol for a time, perhaps up to a year. Before that, the BSA's program literature recommended what you're used to, where young boys joined real patrols when they crossed over.

 

Yeh can find a bunch of long threads in these forums about the plusses and minuses of both systems (and a whole bunch of other permutations). They're a good read, and you can print 'em out and give 'em to your Scoutmaster and fellow PLC members to consider.

 

I've seen troops run just fine either way. In the end, the success of a troop depends on the quality of people in it. Good people adapt to most systems.

 

Now if you were to ask me which system I prefer myself, I think it's da one you grew up in, where patrols are permanent rather than age-based, and when you join a troop you join a patrol (like joinin' Gryffindor House when yeh join Hogwarts). I think that in many cases works best for kids learnin' and growin', and better for safety and patrol method/youth leadership. It's certainly the classic method that Scoutin' used for many, many decades.

 

It really doesn't work well is when adults are weak/clueless and there's a lot of bullying type stuff happening, and it takes a lot of effort to break in new scout parents who are used to da age-based older-person-run dens/patrols in cub scouts.

 

Beavah

 

[dg98adams]

For the past several years, our troop (SM) has advocated the "new Scout Patrol" stays together and becomes a standard patrol. There was 1 year, we had to split the incoming group into 2 "new Scout Patrols".

 

Some of the boys felt slighted (I think) to not be with their long-time Cub friends even though we provided TG's to assist either Patrol.

 

I think it would have been better to keep them in the same big patrol then let them split after 6 months.

 

 

 

[Eagle92]

I personally say pair them up and then split off the separate pairs. They integrate into the troop and still have a buddy they know while makig new friends.

 

I don't like the idea of permanent patrols, i.e. the same folks in the patrol all the time, but allow the scouts to switch patrols. Now I do realize that they rarely switch out of their patrol, but it has happened a few times with my old troop.

 

The only "age specific" I like is the venture patrol, b/c they can do things on their own. Grant you I am use to the old Leadership Corps, and view the VP as a continuation of that, just anew name. In my old troop, you had to be First Class or above, have served in a PL, and be appointed by the SPL to some troop POR. Once you were in that patrol, that was the parol you were permanently in.

[Eagledad]

80 to 90 percent of what a boy learns in a hands-on program like Troops is learned by watching other people perform in natural settings. Boys in New Scout patrols learn about 40% as much as scouts in mixed age patrols because the scouts in mixed age patrol have constant role models to watch. Boys in same age patrols only learn when someone (adult or troop guide) come in to instruct them in a school type format. And the boy scout experience is not near as much fun when you have to sit and listen to teachers all the time just to learn simple skills.

 

Its rare to find a good boy run troop that uses same age patrols because the scouts tend to be exclusive and cliquish. In fact, I have personally never seen a good boy run program with same age patrols because it requires to much adult intervention to maintain a minimum level growth at the boy level.

 

However, there are times when a troop has to use a new scout patrol. One is when a troop receives so many new scouts, the existing patrols cant function with the influx. We found a patrol can only handle two new scouts at a time without messing up the dynamics.

 

Barry

 

[dg98adams]

Barry,

 

Not to hijack this post....

 

I think you hit it on your post.

 

"Its rare to find a good boy run troop that uses same age patrols because the scouts tend to be exclusive and cliquish. In fact, I have personally never seen a good boy run program with same age patrols because it requires to much adult intervention to maintain a minimum level growth at the boy level......However, there are times when a troop has to use a new scout patrol. One is when a troop receives so many new scouts, the existing patrols cant function with the influx."

 

Our Troop has not been around too long, and we are just getting a core of 4-5th year Scouts that CAN lead. The incoming Scouts have increased our Troop considerately every year. And since were are pretty active, we get a couple transfers every year.

 

I'd like to get the leaders to shift gears and adapt to the changes more since the Troop has evolved.

[NickP412]

well the benefit i see to a patrol of 1st years is that they would all be on the same page in terms of advancement. we put there den chief in as there PL and then they all do there req's together for there next rank. but again i was put into a integrated patrol when i crossed over in February and by the fall after my first summer camp i was a first class scout. although i guess it helped me and my friend always tried to beat each other to the next rank.

[Twocubdad]

Perhaps I'm not reading this correctly, but Barry are you talking about a troop with only the new scout patrol being aged-based (presumably 11-year-olds) and integrated patrols there after, or are we taking about having all the patrols aged-based?

 

When I took over the troop we had aged-based patrols through-out, like Cub Scout dens. It didn't work for a number of reasons listed above. It was he** to reorganize the troop into integrated patrols (except for the NSP). The cliques the aged-based patrols had created didn't want to split up. We've used the NSP/regular patrol system for two years now and it works well. Still trying to add the third leg of having a Venture Patrol, but the guys who would be eligible think it's too much work.

 

Nick, as you are seeing, there is a difference of opinion on the new scout patrol system -- good arguments both ways. It works well in the troop I serve. In my experience the success of a NSP relies on the quality of the Troop Guide. If the TG doesn't have an interest in working with the new scouts and would rather hang with the guys his age, it doesn't work. The first four months the TG needs to literally live, eat and sleep with the new scout patrol. By the fall, the TG rejoins his regular patrol, but still serves as arms-length mentor to the NSP. For four years now we've had good, solid troop guides and it has been a great experience for both the TGs and the guys in their patrols.

 

The older guys who want to get to know the new guys will make and effort to do so. They'll pitch in and help the TG's as instructors and -- on a less formal basis -- do what they can to make the new Scouts feel welcome and bring them into the troop. I especially see this at summer camp where, for better or worse, we tend to run more as a troop and less by patrol. Some guys, regardless of age, just make friends more easily than others. Some of the older guys always think that to maintain their "coolness" they have to treat the little guys like something the cat dragged up. Their loss.

[SR540Beaver]

I ran our NSP program for the last ouple of years and turned it over to one of my assistants this year and now assist him. Our troop utilizes mixed age patrols beyond the NSP. We get the bulk of our new scouts in the February/March time frame. We typically get 18 to 24 new scouts per year. We use three hand selected Troop Guides per new class on NSP to serve as their teachers and mentors. As they progress over the first few months, the troop guides step further and further back. In the fall, we move the new guys out of the NSP and into the mixed age patrols. It works for us.

[Eagledad]

>>well the benefit i see to a patrol of 1st years is that they would all be on the same page in terms of advancement.

[sherminator505]

I've seen both methods work well (keeping them together vs. splitting them up early). Really, it depends on the cohesiveness of the new scout patrol. Is this a patrol that moved in from the same Webelos den or is it an amalgamation from different places? Usually, that makes a big difference as to whether the new scout patrol moves forward as a group or splits up. This is a decision best left to the boys, as they will usually trust their own better judgment in such matters.

[prairie]

How bout this for a plan, NSP but when a Scout earns Tenderfoot he can move on to a regular patrol, when he earns his 2nd class or 6-12 months or patrol size is too small he will move to a regular patrol.

[Mafaking]

 

"what do you guys think about that?"

 

I think we are having a philosophical debate about new scout patrols.

 

What I think that, is that you need is to have heart felt talk with the scoutmaster(s) about the handling of new scouts in the troop. Implore the leaders to consider your opinions. What does the PLC think? As an adult leader I would give a lot of credence to a JASM who has been with the troop for seven years joining as a Tenderfoot. After all I am 30 years past being a tenderfoot aged scout.