How to truely organize the patrols when SM wont listen to you

[spl229]

my SM is narrow minded and i have problem with that. before i took over for the previous SPL the troop committee decided to blow up the patrols and start from scratch. they selected four scouts to literally pick out of a hat for the new patrols. i had a majro problem with that because i was going to alter the way our troop ran to be more age integrated and independent. but my SM did not see it my way. so after my first trip as SPL i decided this would not work at all. i understand give it more time but i knew i could make it better by keeping the patrols i wanted. so the next meeting the boys and i decided that this would not work and we needed to change. so after my second trip we took a vote and agreeded to change back. when he found out he was not happy. idc. my arguement was it was not his place to change them anyway so we redid the wrong. he disagreed. now we are locked in a dead lock between extreme change in patrols or change the opertaion. i need help in how to truely organize the patrols and if i can and should win this disagreement. this is the first change that has happened since i have been there in 4yrs. i do have some adult support but not too much, but i know i have large scout support so are we right in our defense.(note: we have been challenged to alter the patrols but not the old ones)

[Eagle732]

Sounds like you and he SM need to have a talk. I would think that if you explain why you want to make changes he might be more receptive.

The SM might have reasons for not wanting to change the patrols. I know from experience that these types of sweeping changes create a whole lot of problems and unhappy people.

[Beavah]

Yah, SPL229, welcome to da forums, eh!

 

Can you tell us a bit more about what the two methods are? What the current method is for patrols that the committee and SM put in place (roughly how each patrol is made up, how new boys join patrols, how the PLC is made up, how youth leaders are selected) and what the method you're proposing is like?

 

Also, do yeh know what problem the committee was tryin' to solve when they "blew up patrols"?

 

There are dozens of different ways of thinkin' about patrols in the BSA, and troops that use all of 'em successfully. Lots of different "right ways" of doin' things out there. You've only been in scouts for 4 years in one troop so you've only seen one way so far, and you've naturally become used to that way and personally successful with it. Dat's why you're SPL, eh? We never like to change things when we're comfortable and successful.

 

So I'd be thoughtful about whether you're just resistin' what might be an OK change just because you're actin' like an old person who doesn't want to see anything change. Most scoutmasters will tell you that da youth leaders are the ones who are most resistant to new ideas and new things.

 

That doesn't mean that the committee shouldn't have involved yeh in the discussion and process, eh? That's a lesson for you for your future life - you need to get "buy in" from people before you make big changes. So while their new idea might be a good thing and worth givin' some time to work, their way of going about it might not have been the best.

 

My guess is that if yeh sit down with your SM and listen closely to what he and the committee were tryin' to accomplish, and give up da notion of doin' things the same way just because that's how you've always done 'em, that you'll be able to come up with a compromise or a "third option."

 

Do tell us, though, what the details are, and we'll comment some more!

 

Beavah

 

 

[spl229]

i guess the real problem was that there was little integration between the younger and older scouts and i realized that but i had a plan that was not accepted nor thought about by anyone "in power". my idea was to make anyone 15+ a troop guide and assign an older boy a younger boy to mentor and help.

 

i did try to discuss it with my SM along with my ASPL and we got half a comment every 2 secs while he laughed and smiled at every comment and point we made. so i believe that has been exhausted and i have a meeting tonight and a PLC so i will fill you in on how it goes.

[gwd-scouter]

Welcome to the forum spl229.

 

Can you give us a bit more information?

 

How many guys in your Troop?

How many patrols?

How were the patrols set up before the Committee made the change - mixed age, same age groups.

 

What is the age distribution in your troop? A lot of new scouts, a lot of older scouts, or an even mix?

 

Were your older scouts actively engaged with the younger guys, or did they ignore them?

 

 

[gcnphkr]

An important part of getting people to listen is to become a great listener yourself. Start off by trying to understand what the SM and committee were trying to accomplish with the change in the patrols. Find out if they believe that it is working. Unless your plan accomplishes the same things then it will be unlikely that they will listen to you.

 

Second, realize that just because it is your idea it may not be the best (I can think of a couple of issues right off the bat). Share with the SM the problems you see in the way things are being done and then ask him for ideas for correcting them. Here is were you might share an idea for addressing a particular problem and then listen to his criticism. Ask him for ways to change the basic idea so that it will work.

 

Third, revolutions rarely work. That is the way your first post and some of your second sound. You came up with ideas. You held a vote. Then you went to the SM. Try it the other way. Go to the SM. The two of you come up with ideas. Then present it to the troop to see if they like them.

[fgoodwin]

I'm amazed that my fellow Scouters are completely ignoring the elephant in the room.

 

That being this: the troop committee should have absolutely no say in how patrols are organized. That is a program function and is under the purview of the SM (and ideally under the SPL).

 

Sounds like this troop has issues that we aren't hearing about . . .