Oversleeping

[Twocubdad]

How does "they get left behind" work?

[SMDonHall]

Thanks for the discussion. I'm responding to some of the comments below:

 

QUOTE:

If the SPL does not get up at the agreed upon time the Scoutmaster goes over to his tent and gives him exactly one wake up call.

 

QUESTION: Then what do you do after the one wake-up call is ignored?

 

QUOTE: "Maybe it takes several months before a sleepyhead SPL is replaced by new blood." and "Time to have a SM Conference and remind them what the "R" in "POR" means. Being a successful leader means that you do what you need to do when you need to do it."

 

QUESTION: In the meantime, or if he does not respond to SM Conference, what action is taken? Or should we call immediately for the SPL to step down? As you can imagine, without the SPL awake, there is a trickle-down effect, where others don't want to get up either. Also, with no one "in charge" things don't get done and adults are stepping in.

 

QUOTE: "After sufficient calls, tent shaking and threats, the next tactic is usually dropping the tent on Sleeping Beauty. A cup of cold water will be coming next."

 

Comments: well this is kind of how it was handled on our last campout, however it really didn't work (it still took adult intervention), and seemed to only make the oversleepers more angry and caused a lot of conflict between boys. Also, part of me wonders how this sort of thing fits in to "courteous" and "kind" (and YES, I know the oversleepers are not being "courteous" either, but I'm not sure I want to 2 wrongs making a right )

 

DH

 

 

 

 

[Stosh]

If we have someone who over sleeps, two adults stay behind and do camp chores. If the event is a camporee the PL's are responsible for getting their boys to the activities, adults are not necessary anyway.

 

I don't find that a sleeper goes much beyond a last minute breakfast of leftovers. Boys that gain a reputation for sleeping in are discouraged by their patrol buddies not to sign up for troop only events. Eventually if there is a pattern to such behavior the boy is asked to find another patrol, i.e. slacker patrol, which is not invited to the events were keeping to a schedule is important. All of life is choices. If the sleeper can make a choice that fits his needs, the patrols reserve the right to make choices that fit their needs as well.

 

There is no trickle-down effect with the SPL getting up first. Every PL is responsible for the members of his patrol. If he wishes to get a wake-up call it is the SPL's responsibility to help him with it. If the SPL needs help, the adults can provide it. It's an issue of helping, not directing from the top down, but supporting from the bottom up. It really shouldn't be the SPL's responsiblity to run all over camp waking PL's up, but if they request help, they get it.

 

Stosh(This message has been edited by jblake47)

[evmori]

Ya don't get up! Tent comes down! Works like a charm!

[EagleBeaver]

The troop bugler gets himself up and blows his horn to wake the other scouts. We've not yet had a bugler unable to get himself up.

If a tent is still quiet after 5 minutes or so, they usually get a personal wake-up. It's awful hard to keep sleeping with a bugle being blasted two feet from your ear. I don't recall ever having someone sleep-in past a personal bugle call.

 

http://www.troopkit.com/bugle.jpg

[Eagledad]

>>If a tent is still quiet after 5 minutes or so, they usually get a personal wake-up. It's awful hard to keep sleeping with a bugle being blasted two feet from your ear. I don't recall ever having someone sleep-in past a personal bugle call.

[Gunny2862]

If it's the SPL or PL's and it's the "I don't want to." variety of I'm not getting up - they aren't leading - or at least not responsibly - fire em. Simple.

[Stephen_Scouter]

It's all about the "tone at the top", if the SPL and PL's are up on time, the rest of the boys will likely follow suit.

 

When I was SPL, which was 7 or so years ago now, it was not much of an issue. I have always been an early riser, so I was typically the first one up (even before most of the adults).

 

So for a camporee or something that had a 7:30 formation I would usually be up at 5:00am.

 

I would get up and start the fire in the main camp and get some hot water going for cooking, coffee, and such.

 

If by 6:00am I didn't see people moving around and such in the different patrol sites I would wake the PLs. This usually was not an issue, they were almost always up on time. Then the PLs did a fine job at getting their cooks and boys up.

 

I know it can certainly be tough to correct a person's sleeping habits. I worked with many people on camp staff that had issues with it.

[SMT224]

On a regular week-end camping trip the Scouts are usually excited about Saturday activities, so no problem getting up and going. But after a few slow leavings on Sunday morning, the PLC imposed a very simple rule: no breakfast until tent and all gear are stowed in the trailer. Now Scouts get up and get going, because they want to eat - the longer you take the more unhappy your tent mate, 'cause he can't eat until your gear is out of the tent and you help put it away. Peer pressure and hunger seems to have solved our problem.

[HobcawChaos]

If they aren't holding anything up, the adults allow the patrols to take care of it. The last troop campout was a relaxed first morning as we were in a cabin and it was rainy and cold outside. Our resident sleepy head was being ran around on the cabin floor while breakfast cooked. She was on clean-up and her patrolmates did roust her to help (i think by threatening to all tickle her at once). Her breakfast was leftovers: cold biscuit and piece of fruit. She got up much better the next day, which was good 'cause we were heading home.

[scoutingagain]

For SMDon my suggestion is along the lines of, what do you do when your SPL is unavailable? To whom does the responsiblity fall? This happened a couple of times on outings and the SPL simply didn't get up. After several attempts I went over to the ASPL's tent, told him he was acting SPL for the day and to get everyone going. The ASPL did so cheerfully and the SPL was told he didn't need to get up the ASPL was in charge. Needless to say tne SPL seemed to get the message.

 

Like Barry, this has been a rare issue for us. If the boys know there is an activity scheduled for the next day and there is a time constraint they are very good about getting each other up and going.

 

SA

[sandspur]

The scouts handle it themselves. Since (at least on the last day of a campout) no-one eats until camp is struck and the area clean (we cold-camp the last breakfast and have juice, doughnuts, bars etc). The scouts have been known to drop the tent and start folding it up with our notorious late sleeper still inside.

[Stosh]

What has always amazed me is how a boy who can't take care of himself is ever put in a position of trying to take care of others. This is why the POR system falls apart. A patch on the sleeve does not make a leader. If the boy can't function in a position of responsibility he has no business wearing the patch.

 

Why would anyone expect a boy to fulfill a responsibility when they simply can't do it. This is seems to be a receipe for failure in my book.

 

For those who are going to jump on my case about challenging boys, remember the most basic form of leadership requires the boy to first of all be able to care for himself. Once he's mastered that, then taking care of someone else (Buddy System T-9). As the boy matures he takes on more and more challenges until he can lead a patrol of boys, T-8). Once he gets good at patrol work he's eligible for SPL. Too often troops are interested more in getting 6 months of POR in rather than actually doing the job. Then when he gets to his Eagle project where he's expected to demonstrate leadership he's in over his head. Here's where the parents and SM step in a do it for him because from day one he wasn't responsbile for not even himself.

 

Scoutingagain has the correct solution, but I wouldn't stop there. If someone else is better qualified to do the job, they get it, the earned it. ASPL wouldn't be SPL for the day, he'd be SPL until the "former" SPL figured out what leadership is all about. It would seem that leadership in POR patches isn't the same thing as real leadership.

 

Stosh

[Sparta Patrol]

It is cruel yet funny what we do. 1st- If he is in his tent, we drop it! 2nd-If he is somewhat light and a heavy sleeper we carry out his matress FAR OUT in the trail where he can't get out of. Cruel yet effective.