Adult Mandates vs. Boy Led

[Eagledad]

>>How is that done in your troop or is there no effort on the part of the adults to do so because things are going smoothly with the adults running the show?

[Eamonn]

When the Ship first started the boys that joined were for the most part the Scouts who were really into Scouts and Scouting.

A good number were Eagle Scouts or Life Scouts, many were also active in the OA, serving as officers in the lodge.

Most had at one time taken JLTC,or what replaced it.

I thought to myself that this was going to be easy.

I went to great lengths to let them all know that the Ship was their Ship and what we did or didn't do was in their hands.

I was soon made very aware that it wasn't going to be easy and the idea that what we were going to do being up to them was new to them.

They expected what I seen as a "Heat and Serve" program.

By that I mean that they were happy to do what they could near the end of whatever, were happy and even competent to follow instructions.

When the females came along, who had never been through all the Leadership Training's, never been involved in Scouts and Scouting, they seemed far more able to take the bull by the horns and not only get the task done, but come up with what the task was in the first place.

The parents of the boys seemed to want to keep an eye on what their son was doing and seemed unhappy when they asked questions where the answer was "I'm waiting for the Scouts to let me know!" The parents of the girls seemed to have a better understanding that the Ship belonged to the Scouts and my role was that of an adviser.

I do understand that girls mature a little faster than boys.

But I do feel that part of the problem was that the boys and their parents had grown to expect that the adults would carry most of the load.

Many of the boys seen leadership as being something along the lines of leading the group into the mess hall at summer camp, or just passing along instructions which they had played no part in helping to make.

 

When I was a new adult leader, I was OK with using the PLC to act as my message delivery service.

I'd come up with ideas that I thought were good ideas, I'd work out how we would put these ideas into some kind of an action, covering much of the what, where and when. Then the PLC would meet and I'd pass on this information for them to carry back to the Patrols.

With the Ship, I seen that my role was going to be that of a coach until the members seen and started to understand and grasp that the Ship really was theirs and that they really were to people in charge.

The first few Quarterdeck Training's we held didn't work out that well. We seemed to get lost in the details of what we were going to do and not get into how it was going to be done or what it was that we wanted to do.

 

While the Walmart example isn't a bad one. I can't help thinking that we need to be looking a lot deeper.

Is the Wal-mart worker just leading the guys into the dining room?

Does the Wal-Mart worker have any say in what Wal-Mart is going to sell?

As adults we do need to tailor the style of leadership we use to fit the needs of the Scouts we serve.

We need to keep a close eye on what we are doing and ensure that we are trying to move toward allowing the Scouts the freedom to be true leaders.

All too often we fail to look at what we are doing and keep on doing what we have been doing, in part because it is the easy way to ensure that things get done, in part because we fall into the trap of thinking what we are doing is the only way to do it.

When I look at some of the better looking Troops (Healthy Troops that seem to offer great programs and opportunities for the members). I also see that the SM has taken on the role of a coach and seems happy to leave things the way they are.

This youth led thing is always in a state of change.

There are times when it seems that it is never going to take hold, times when it does take hold but only for a very short time and if we are very lucky times when it just falls into place and hangs around for a while, only to one day just fall apart.

This would seem like a good time o dig out all them great notes that we took at WB and re-read the stuff about High Performance Teams.

Eamonn.

[Twocubdad]

Well put, E.

 

I've been Scoutmaster for almost 4 years now. I frequently tell folks in the troop that no one has a steeper learning curve that I do.

 

A couple years ago I had a conversation with a guy with over 30 years as SM. He was explaining to me he saw his job as figuring how to deal with each new SPL and come to an understanding -- I guess that's what we're calling a tipping point -- of how he needed to work with that particular SPL to allow him to be successful. The difficult part being that just about the time things started running smoothly with one administration, it is time to elect a new SPL.

 

Since then, I've come to understand that I have to figure that out that everytime I interact with a Scout. Sometimes what is called for is to growl, "ask your patrol leader". Sometimes it's to pick up the kid, powder his butt and get him going again. With the new boys that's a fairly easy call based on their maturity level -- the rough-and-tumble kids respond more to the kick in the pants; the more sensitive kids need a little more TLC. It's the older guys who are more difficult to figure out.

 

That, of course, is filtered through our own vision of what we want out units to be and our understanding of Scouting. Personally, I put more stock in adult association than some here seem to do. I think that's because my experience as a youth with in a troop with terrific leaders -- very fine gentlemen who meant a great deal to me as a youth and who still are very special people to me. Those men made a great impression on me and I hope I can have the same influence on the boys in our troop.

 

I also struggle with the legacy of the shell of the troop that I took over. I saw first hand the difference between boy-led and adult-abandoned. It ain't pretty.

 

I believe one of my mistakes in trying to turn the troop around was trying to push boy-led too hard, too early. The boys were given responsibility for troop meeting programs too soon. We wound up with a room full of 11 and 12 year olds being bored by a 13 year old giving a presentation he wasn't really qualified or interested in giving. We've since tempered our program by having more adult input and expertise.

 

My point here is that finding the balance point in the program is a constant job and constant struggle. I will admit to being frustrated and frankly skeptical of folks who offer the same theoretical answers to every problem. One size does not fit all. Heck, you can't even count on one size fitting the same kid for any length of time. Anyone who buys shoes for a 13-year-old boy understands that.

 

I can hardly imagine an animal that changes more than a Scout troop. Besides the growth and development of the boys themselves, almost every activity is a different dynamic -- different program, different emphasis, different location, different leaders, and often different group of boys (are you telling me your attendance doesn't change for each different sports season?)

 

That's the challenge. We best have a huge bag of tricks if we're going to meet it.(This message has been edited by Twocubdad)

[Crew21_Adv]

 

 

Stosh,

 

 

Greetings!

 

Within my current troop, a few years ago our PLC was lacking coordination. Some good ideas, and they were good Scouts, but a lack of communications and planning.

 

I brought in an idea from a friend of mine. We cancelled the last troop meeting of the month, and replaced that evening with the PLC meeting.

 

Now, we do have monthly planning and communications. Our Scouts need a lot of assisted focus as our business PLC meeting could take 30-45 minutes it usually last about an hour and a half since the boys like to drift off topic to discuss video games, movies, girls, etc, and the SM/ASM bring them back to the agenda of planning.

 

Our PLC's and SPL's have gone thru waves of "peaks and valley", sometimes a strong team, sometimes just a team (even fairly week and uncoordinated).

 

With the PLC drifting off topic and chasing down different tangents the SM/ASMs usually sell the program to the PLC, (such as; Hey gents, consider this... If we do this event/camp, then we can get specific advancements completed and earn rank and merit badges. Does that sound cool?)

 

With my Venturing Crew, they too are a good set of teenagers. But school, sports and even after school work sometimes occupies their planning process. So I sometimes tell them, "this is my program. Anytime you want it, just come and take it away from me." I don't say this in a hostile tone, but just to accomplish (or begin event planning). It is usually effective and the Venturing Crew teenagers usually take control of the Crew event planning away from me, and relieve me of my duties. But sometimes I can see they are so busy, that I do plan a few events for them (maybe a rotation of the Crew Officers do 3/4 of the work, and I do 1/4 of the work).

 

So, I would say that any effective Troop or Crew does not have to be viewed as adult mandates vs. boy led, but more of adult association and youth led working in harmony.

 

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

[Stosh]

Crew21-Adv,

 

From your explanation, I see you doing it correctly. I'm not advocating a total hands-off policy by the adults and let the kids run amuck. Your choice of words such as assist and advise are excellent. The need is not to do it for them, but constantly keep pushing the weight of leadership towards the boys and not creating mandates that will interfere with that process. Initially all the weight on the balance is on the adult side, but can the adults relinquish that and shift it over to the boys? Some simply can't let go, others rush it too much and overwhelm their boys.

 

My boys, as well, waste a lot of time with jaw-jacking at meetings, but I, too, am constantly reminding them that they are wasting my time and the time of the boys they are supposed to be working with. I constantly ask the question, "how can you lead when you don't know where you are going?"

 

Planning is left to the boys, yet I provide calendar suggestions, activity suggestions, report forms, menu planning guides, etc. for their use if they so choose to use them. Slowly but with a few set backs here and there, the weight of leadership is moving over to the boy's side of the balance sheet.

 

The real eye opener happened last summer when another adult and I announced we would be going on a white-water canoe trip and if there were any boys interested, there were X number of seats available in our vehicles. Filled up the seats right away and off we went, no menu's, no plans, no canoe rentals, nothing. We went anyway. It's surprising what the boys can do in an emergency. Fortunately we did camp within a half-mile of a grocery store (yes, they walked) and they were able to get their rentals in at the last minute, but it was a major hassle. Yes, I did pack enough PBJ to feed the boys for the weekend.

 

As we rode home, the only question I had for the boys was, "What are you going to do next time so you don't waste so much of my time?" There wasn't much jaw-jacking going on after that. They did agree the canoeing was excellent, but everything else sucked. They also agreed that it didn't have to be that way and the solution to their problems rested in their hands.

 

When adults seriously view their boys as capable peers, they will eventually step up to the plate.

 

My crew operates very differently. We run totally on military protocol in leadership and some of the kids have stepped up and taken over some of the NCO positions in the group. Our group consists of both the adults from the chartering organization as well as the crew. I was "grooming" one boy for more leadership and he told me face-to-face he wasn't interested. He's the same boy the members of the CO/Crew eventually elected as senior officer at a national event because I had been promoted to brigade level command for the weekend. That same boy is now in ROTC basic training.

 

Boys don't naturally seek leadership, they all wish to be babysat for the most part. Hey, so do I! There are times when I want the world to cater to my every whim as well. But then there are those who will roll up their sleeves and make it happen for others so that they themselves can have a good time. Every adult leader knows this, and when the boys share in that understanding, things begin to fall into place because the balance can and eventually does shift over to the boys as they will take on leadership when they are finally convinced it's possible. Then the blance shifts and it's a great thing to see happen.

 

I get nervous with the words rules, mandates, directives, not because they aren't useful for the adults, but because they inhibit the shift in trust of the boys necessary for real boy-led processes. I have only three rules by which my troop operates 1) Safety First, 2) Look and act like a scout, and 3) Have fun! The only time an adult can step in and correct a situation is if the boy is breaking one of these rules. No by-laws, no behavior contracts, none of these instruments that let the boys know that we don't trust them and we have to do these things because we think you're going to screw up and this is how we are going to keep you from doing so.

 

My record is unbroken. I have never told my boys they had to do something in a certain way or in a certain amount of time. But I have suggested a lot of things to the boys over the course of every meeting, event, activity and outing to recommend, assist, and support them in THEIR efforts. The only time I played the parent/trump card was when one of the boys complained to me about something his PL had asked him to do, I answered: "Because he said so!" :-) Boys appreciate knowing the adults back them in their efforts and it encourages them when things get shaky, knowing that someone's covering their backside.

 

Stosh

[gwd-scouter]

I've come back to this thread because like most Scout troops ours is changing again. We have three older, experienced, scouts - ages 16 and 17. For the past couple of years they have been the driving force behind our Troop. They learned over the years and now I would trust them to run a meeting or even a weekend outing without any adults around at all. Well, at least I would have before we got our recent influx of 12 new Scouts. The guys are a little overwhelmed. They have taken it on themselves to make sure that we don't lose one of these new Scouts. Oh yes, they have much pride in their troop. They want to make sure that our next wave of junior leaders steps up and takes control in the next year, and they have some concerns.

 

Several years ago when I stepped up as SM, it was for a completely adult-led - "mandated" to use a word in this thread - troop. PORs were a patch on the sleeve. Time to turn that around. I got absolutely no buy in from the older scouts or even the adults and recruiting had been almost nonexistent. Recruiting continued to be difficult. Eventually all those legacy Scouts aged out or transferred to other Troops and I began with a very small very young Troop.

 

That is the troop in which our three older Scouts were trained. So we set forth to become boy-led. Yes indeed, I will admit that training was based on MY vision of what I wanted our Troop to be. I communicated that vision often to both the boys and the adults. Back then these guys were 12 and 13 and tasked with learning how to take charge of things. In other words, become owners of their Troop. It was, at best, difficult.

 

Slowly, over the years the 'mandates' diminished and those 12 and 13 year olds began to come up with their own ideas. They started saying things like, 'yeah, remember when we tried that last time and it didn't work'. Good stuff.

 

Now, here we are, with 12 brand new Scouts and a whole bunch of new parents and leaders. Older guys are working hard (and pretty well) at leading these new Scouts. My job is to help the adults get over their Webelos mind set. Working pretty well so far.

 

We have a slight deficit in experience and leadership among the boys, though. Older three are 16 and 17, then the next wave of junior leaders (except for one 14 year old) in training are 13 and below. A result of our poor recruiting for a couple of years. I see the older guys preparing to turn over the keys to the next generation. That next generation needs some help, just as I remember these three older guys needed help. Barry posts often about how an average 13 year old just doesn't want to be put in a position of leadership. Based on experience, I can say that's true.

 

Last week one of our 13 year olds stated "I don't ever want to be SPL." He's a real scouty Scout, shows up for everything and takes the whole Scout Spirit thing very seriously. But, he's young still and sees for himself that he is not ready for leadership. I imagine he'll change his mind eventually about being a PL or SPL.

 

Last month, we more than doubled in size. At the moment we have one mixed-age patrol led (so far not very well) by a 13 year old patrol leader, and two new Scout patrols led by our two 16 year olds. In September we will have elections and the guys will form into two mixed-age patrols - maybe three, but the guys are still thinking about it. The three older Scouts do not want to be patrol leaders. They think it's time for the next generation to step up. One has expressed his desire to be the SPL. The other two want to be JASMs and perhaps one each be assigned as an advisor to the patrols. Sounds like a good idea to me.

 

For the past year things rolled along very well in our Troop. We had only nine boys and they for the most part got along well and handled things on their own. Husband commented to me about how easy it was for the adults. I tended to agree. The Scouts grew up together in our Troop and knew the way of things. Now they have a large group of new Scouts to work with and I see our junior leaders getting frustrated and overwhelmed. Should I just sit back and watch or step in and counsel those guys? I think my job is to help them in this transition.

 

As I've posted, with the sudden influx of new Scouts, the soon aging out of our three experienced Scouts, and the mantle of leadership being handed to our crop of 13 year olds, things have changed. Maybe this is the tipping point being asked about in this thread. I have become busier these days and see the necessity of more guidance from me - working with our older Scouts in helping to guide the younger guys in responsibility.

 

A recent example: PLC wants to put up a fairly elaborate gateway at our upcoming Council Camporee. They decided that everyone would work on lashing at last week's meeting. Given the fact that most of the new Scouts haven't even mastered the tenderfoot knots, I didn't think it was a great idea. But, it was their idea. Talking with the guys afterwards I asked if they intended to have 21 guys helping to put up the gateway. Hmmm, no, they said. PL of the mixed age patrol said his patrol was actually going to be in charge of the gateway. Great! Then, why, I asked, were you guys working on lashings with the new Scouts instead of some of their Tenderfoot requirements? This whole new Scout patrol is new to them and that question got them thinking.

 

Still, I wouldn't say we are tipping toward adult-led.

 

Of course, other opinions may vary.

 

(This message has been edited by gwd-scouter)

[Eagledad]

You wrote that at 4:00 am gwd-scouter. You are officially a Master Scouter.

 

I love this scouting stuff.

 

Barry

[Stosh]

And it's so easy for the balance to shift.

 

Patrol A older boys, Patrol B new scouts.

 

Patrol A PL doesn't show, doesn't get involved, APL tries to hold it together for the Camporee.

 

Patrol B PL works hard gets his new kids in the loop. Reminds patrol A leadership multiple times they need to make sure they have pot-luck desert for the Camporee on Saturday night. Patrol A blows him off because he's PL of the new boys.

 

Get to the Camporee, Patrol A doesn't have a dessert to pass, Patrol B does. Called out to get in line for treats, Patrol A jumps up. PL of B reminds them that they haven't brought anything and they probably shouldn't be there just for the freebies. Scout carries his fair share.

 

PL of A runs off to his mother crying (literally) (Mother/Father a registered leaders in two units, ours and another) Mom consoles boy, father gets in the act and says the boys should go up and get treats. Father then precedes to take it out on the SM (Me) for lack of communication/leadership and the Patrol A should have an adult mentor (which is is eager to fill in as) and the boys are too young to actually be leading themselves at age 12/13.

 

And unless I stand my ground, the balance will quickly shift from boy-led to adult-led.

 

By the way, the APL has been in the troop for 1 1/2 years, still a Tenderfoot, has had TLT training, been PL of a new patrol last year which fell apart over the course of his tenure (1 year) and has continually threatened to quit over the course of the past 8 months.

 

Parents feel this boy and his patrol need adult "mentoring" because he hasn't had the opportunity, training, and experience to be a real leader in the patrol.

 

How easy it would be for the adults to take over and run the show. A mentor here, a guide there, and advisor in another place and the SM directing the show. Boy would our troop's performance really improve. But then with adult leadership it should, the boys can't be trusted to do their own thing, just look at their track record and how upset they are.

 

Stosh

 

 

[gwd-scouter]

Barry - super sleepy, maybe.

 

Just curious jblake, but why is PL of Patrol B telling anyone in patrol A what to do? I remember reading other posts where you state your PLs are older Scouts. How old is the PL of the new Scout patrol (Patrol B)? Reason I ask is that, at least in my experience, there is a big difference between a 15 or 16 year old working with new Scouts and a 12-13 year old dealing with scouts his own age or older. Again, just curious. I notice in our Troop the new guys in our new scout patrols will do anything and hang on every word of their older more experienced patrol leader. The guys in our mixed age patrol of 11-14 year olds, now being led by a 13 year old, mostly ignore him. You are correct that the balance can shift. Not so sure that one act of not standing your ground as you put it will totally destroy the boy-led method you have so successfully created. In any case, I would have told Dad the same thing. The guys didn't prepare a dessert, they don't get to participate. Seems reasonable to me.

 

Of course, in our Troop, most of our guys are just a bit more friendly and courteous and most likely would have invited the dessert-less patrol over after everyone else had gotten theirs.

 

But I go back to your young inexperienced APL and your (presumably) older Scout PL of the new Scout patrol. No problems in our new Scouts patrols. As I said, the guys hang on everything the PLs say. But, with our 13 year old PL who is struggling to get cooperation from his five patrol mates, I don't think my helping this boy develop leadership skills is in any way shifting the balance. I certainly am not going to let him just hang out there to fail over and over again. Not fair to him, not fair to the boys in his patrol.

 

 

 

 

[Stosh]

>>> "Just curious jblake, but why is PL of Patrol B telling anyone in patrol A what to do?"

 

My most senior scout (17 yo) is the PL of the NSP. He also doubles as the SPL as needed by activities that emphasize Troop level representation. The second most senior (16 yo) serves as PL of the second patrol. Knowing that the 16 yo often drops the ball on his patrol by not showing up very often, the 17 yo as a courtesy will recommend different options for the APL of the second patrol (13 yo) things that he might consider doing to assist his patrol members. The 13 yo has the option of blowing off these suggestions which he did in this case.

 

The 17 yo does a great job of getting his boys ready, of course, with the majority of the boys NSP (there are other boys in the NSP that are not new scouts).

 

The boys of the older patrol are basically leaderless for the most part, they know their PL is only interested in his Eagle and has no interest in actually doing anything to help the patrol. Thus his credibility as a leader is zero. The 13 yo is only de facto leader in that no one else even lifts a finger to help.

 

The 17 yo who's doing a knockout job with the NSP did a Dutch oven chococlate chip cookie cheese cake for the desert which blew away the staff and other troops that were all wanting the recipe, which his patrol carefully guards as their ace-in-the-hole for camporee competitions. He made plenty that could have been enough to cover all the scouts in the troop. He has said that he has less than a year to get the NSP up and running as leaders because he's going to age out before they can take the reins of the patrol and eventually lead the troop as boy-led.

 

The 17 yo was PL of the older boys, but when the 16 yo did nothing with the NSP, they switched when the 17 yo felt it more important that the NSP get trained correctly and we all assumed the older boys would fair better than the NSP with the lack of leadership.

 

By the way with over of the boys in the older patrol having had TLT training it shouldn't be a stretch to think that they have the potential, and experience to pull themselves together. Obviously no one seems to be stepping up at this point.

 

By the way the 16 yo showed up at the camporee this weekend for about an hour when his mom stopped by to drop him off. Instead, his younger Webelos brother stayed and he went home.

 

I don't mind it when the 17 yo of Patrol A recommends things to Patrol B as a courtesy thing, it's good training for him. He'll be the 3rd ASM of our council contingency to National in 2010. He's very careful to word the recommendations as an adult would do in a boy-led program. He is doing a nice job of making the boy -> adult leader transition by making sure to pass the baton on to the younger boys and not hogging all the spotlight for himself.

 

As far as the 13 yo, (and all his patrol buddies) they consistantly blow off any assistance offered by the 17 yo, the SM and any other adult that attempts to work with their situation. They hang out just fine until something goes wrong then they seek out less involved adults to whine to and garner sympathy. It's the standard game of playing one adult against the other to get their way.

 

The first lesson learned? Whine to the adults, get what you want.

 

The second lesson learned? And yes there was other fall out from the NSP who verbally questioned why the older boys got treats when they didn't do any work. Is this how the troop works? Time will tell whether or not situations like this can affect the leadership potentional of the others.

 

Yes, the NSP would have shared with the older boys as a courtesy, but the issue was camporee wide, not just within our troop. The comments made indicated that such attitudes reflected bad on the whole troop in front of the whole district.

 

It's a matter of some care about boy-led and patrol cooperation and others care only for themselves and everyone is becoming quickly aware of who's who. When those who care only for themselves enlist adult help to get their way, it doesn't bode well for the rest of the boys.

 

Stosh

[ThunderFox]

Every day in a Scout Troop is a new day in the world! There will be all sorts of opportunities for mandates, variations and violations. We have addressed this over the years by publishing two sets of rules.

 

1. Adult made rules that address safety, CO concerns and BSA Policies.

 

2. Scout Rules authored by the Scouts. These rules are reviewed/revised at the leader training after Troop Elections every six months. Now the new PLC has adopted this new set of rules and has agreed to the validity. We also do a session about how the PLC will review mis-behaviour with compassion and the aim to have the behaviour leave and the Scout remain. We use role play for this instruction. Long ago, the adults did the role play but as soon as the Scouts caught on they became the players.

 

Item No. 2 is augmented by suggestions whispered in the SPL's ear.

IE: "Maybe the PLC would like the challenge to set a food budget for a campout and see if the patrols can meet it."

 

Or, Do you think the Patrols would like some sort of dining competition on the next campout? Maybe International cuisine or a specific cuisine like Italian, French or Mexican? We could even invite special judges to dinner; such as for Italian we could invite the Italian Consul.

 

Whispered suggesstions can spark debates that may turn out in a totally different place that where the suggestion started, but the end result will reflect what the Scouts want and will support.

 

I remember a Monty Python like campout theme I experienced as a boy: SPAMOUT. Every meal had to involve a "creative Dish" incorporating Spam. The Dinner Judge was the head of the nearby manager of the Hormel Packing Plant! Themes are fun when the boys think them up. So what if it started with a whisper.

 

We use blue, red and yellow feathers prepared with a loop of leather as it would be to affix to a warbonnet, awarded for 1st, 2nd, & 3rd place which necessatates a patrol flag to fly from.

 

Cheers

 

[ThunderFox]

I thought I would share our troop's rules, both sets.

 

APPENDIX ITEM "A-3"

 

TROOP CODE OF CONDUCT

 

Troop ___, as all troops should, operates by the Scout Oath and Law. Because we function under this precept, each and every Scout should expect Scout-like behavior of all his brother troop members. The Patrol Leaders' Council is responsible for discipline and Scouts' Honor.

 

There are two groups of specific rules and are published here so each Scout and his parents may know what is to be part of a young man's behavior and what is not. The first group of rules were made by the adults for the health and safety of the boys or to align with official BSA policies. The second group of rules were made by the Scouts and will be enforced by the Patrol Leaders' Council (PLC). Scouts will be given the opportunity to explain their conduct to their peers of the PLC.

 

GROUP A, Adult area of responsibility

1. The Scoutmaster or Leader in charge is responsible for each and every boy's safety and he must be obeyed.

 

2. Four adult leaders, minimum, two of whom have successfully completed BSA Basic Scout Leader Training will be present at all outings or activities.

 

3. The wearing of military or para-military clothing at scouting activities is a violation of National BSA policy and will not be allowed. This is a ban on "camo" clothing.

 

4. ALL Scouts riding in vehicles will wear seat belts.

 

5. ALL drivers transporting scouts will carry adequate liability insurance as set out in current BSA guidelines.

 

6. No Scout may ride in a vehicle with a driver under 21 years of age without written parental consent verified by the adult Leader in charge.

 

7. Annual notarized permission slips w/ release for leaders to seek medical treatment in the event parent/guardian cannot be reached, must be completed by parent/guardian for their Scout to participate in normal troop camping and outdoor activities. Additional permission slips may be requested for special activities or events.

 

8. Parent/guardian will complete a medical statement of allergies, habits, conditions, medication required or any other vital information an adult leader needs to protect the scout's mental, physical or emotional well-being.

 

9. Cell phones may be carried turned off by First Class Scouts and above. They may be used, when prudent, in emergency situations when not in violation of Camp Policies. Using game, texting or Internet functions are reasons for confiscation and a ban on future ability to carry a phone at troop functions.

 

10. NO Sheath knives, radios, "Ipods", electronic games etc.

 

11. Liquid fuels or liquid fire starters will not be used by boys or adults to start wood or charcoal fires.

 

12. Stoves or lanterns requiring liquid fuel will be filled, lit and turned off by an adult or an older Scout who holds the backpacking merit badge as taught in this Troop.

 

13. At no time will any liquid fuel be allowed in any boy patrol campsite.

 

14. Trees, living or dead, will not be downed or chopped upon without the Scoutmaster's permission.

 

15. Fires are for cooking, illumination and warmth. There will be NO playing with, in or around fire.

 

16. No Scout will carry or use a knife, axe or saw in camp until he has had the proper Scout training and has been issued a "Tote' n Chip" card by the Scoutmaster.

 

17. Parents will provide leaders with phone numbers of next of kin or responsible party who should be contacted if they will be unavailable during an outing.

 

The troop committee has adopted these rules in the best interest of the troop and particularly the individual Scouts.

 

Any Scout who willfully violates these rules or will not cease his negative behavior will have his parents called at that moment regardless of location or time, day or night, to come retrieve their son.

 

 

 

 

 

GROUP B, Boy Scouts' Area of Responsibility:

 

1. Discipline and rules are determined by the Patrol Leaders' Council; any Scout with:

a Scout oriented problem he can't work out in his patrol has the right to speak before the Council.

 

2. Patrols shall submit menus to the SPL for approval two troop meetings before the campout. One troop meeting prior, food costs and other expenses will have been determined so individual Scout's share of money may be collected at the troop meeting prior to the outing or the patrol may not go.

 

3. Campouts will run according to the patrol method and have programs planned by the PLC, ready for implementation or the outing is cancelled.

 

4. A Scout improperly dressed for a board of review or behind in his dues cannot be approved for rank advancement.

 

5. A Scout being reviewed for First Class Rank or higher must appear in full Class "A" uniform (formal or travel).

 

6. It is presumed that any boy who has been a Scout for a year will have had adequate time to earn money to purchase the balance of his complete Scout uniform.

 

7. Any Scout two months or more behind in his dues shall be considered "not in good standing" and as such shall not:

Vote

Camp with troop or patrol

Attend field trips or hikes

Advance in rank

 

7. Any Scout not attending a troop or patrol activity (exclusive of camp-outs) for six weeks shall be considered "inactive" unless he works out an arrangement with his patrol and informs the PLC. An Inactive Scout will become un-assigned to a patrol and may return to his patrol when his dues and attendance responsibilities are current. Should his former patrol be full at that time, he may apply for the next available patrol opening or wait for an opening in his former patrol.

 

8. Our Troop ALWAYS TRAVELS IN PROPER UNIFORM as decided by the PLC

for the type of event planned.

 

I hope this is informative.

Cheers

[Knot Head]

A little off topic but last year at summer camp a troop from another state went on and on at the first morning's leader meeting about being "boy led".

 

The next day the SM from that troop noted that there were scouts in the mess hall wearing hats/caps during the meals. Bear in minds this "mess hall" was an open air pavilion. His comment was "I would never let my scouts wear their hat in the mess hall." The camp director said there really was no "policy" about this and we could decide there was a "no hat" rule for that week if we wanted to. When I suggested the SPL's decide what policy to follow when they met after lunch the guy went ballistic. I guess to him wearing a lid during a meal at summer camp was an egregious violation of etiquette.

 

Moral to the story... boy led is often in the eye of the beholder.

 

Out troop is far from perfect but at least we are trying to be aware of opportunities to let the guys decide.

 

Funny thing was for that week I hat to wear a hat in accordance with the states health laws to serve chow, but had to take my hat off when I sat down to eat the chow.

 

[spl229]

i have the same problem my SM is so narrow minded that it frustrates me so much. i organized a boy led vote against our TLC and now i am recieving so much garbage from it about how i cant do that i know how you feel