Patrol Menu planning and food choices

[Buffalo Skipper]

What do your patrols do for their typical 5-meal weekend? B-L-D-B-L. How responsible are patrols in plannnig these menus and planning nutritious (balanced) meals?

 

I am not talking about backpacking, but regular meals with coolers. What meals are cooked, and which are not? What snacks do they plan? Cookies? Fruit, Cracker Barrel?

 

Does your SPL approve all menus or are the patrols allowed to completely make their own choices?

[Stosh]

Our menus are planned out by each patrol. Nutrition is reviewed by the SPL/SM to insure they are done well. Through a series of these reviews, T-2-1 requirements are implemented to show where any of the meals may be lacking. After a number of these reviews, the patrols are better equipped to make informed decisions and the review process becomes less and less cumbersome. If the boys learn what are acceptable foods with proper nutritional content, they will eventually plan accordingly before submitting them.

 

Stosh

[IM_Kathy]

crackerbarrel veries between - s'mores, sizzling apples, meat/cheese/crackers, nachos, and chips/dip

 

breakfast - baggie eggs, scrambled eggs, pancakes, french toast, homemade donuts, cinnamon rolls... all usually include grapes, apples, or bananas

 

lunch - grilled cheese, hotdogs, chili, spaghetti, tacos, sausage sandwiches, dutch oven pizza, mac n' cheese, foil packs with hamburger are popular choices - all with a fruit or veggi

 

supper - about the same as lunch although some of the more experienced cooks will go a bit further wish lazagna, mexican lazagna, roast w/ potatoes and carrots, fried chicken, pork chops with veggies

 

the most popular veggies are baby carrots because there's no work involved... and their fresh fruit or apple sauce isn't much work involved either, but we allow those as long as there is work involved with the rest of their meals

 

our patrols work fairly close together and eat in the same general area as well, which helps the newer cooks see how to cook some of the better meals and also learn what not to do too. our food rules is that if there is left overs then members from other patrols may have tastes from your meal as long as they ask which also allows them to taste what they just saw made

 

when it's meal planning they sit with their patrols - select cook who then picks assistant cook. they then ask if there is anything someone WON'T eat or CAN'T eat... then the cook says some of the things that he'd like to cook (usually 2 choices per meal) and the patrol members pick between those for each meal. When their list is made they bring it to any of the adults... we ask if they are doing this for T-2-1 requirements, if it is we discuss their different methods etc to make sure they will in fact do all the requirements (stove, over fire) when approved then the patrol menu is set and the cook is responsible for shopping with their budget.

[gcnphkr]

Saturday meals tend to be cooked. Pancakes, eggs, bacon (they are learning the joys of the precooked bacon) for the most part. Lunch tends to the canned ravioli/spaghetti-o's or sandwiches. Dinner is normally stews, foil dinners, or dutch oven meals (pizza is popular with one patrol) and will typically have some form of dessert. Typically there will be some sort of fruit with few veggies with the exception of salads, which seem to be fairly popular. There is some type of cracker-barrel after the campfire. Most likely popcorn. This may be for the whole troop or the patrols may go back to their campsites and do their own thing. The PCL decides on this in advance.

 

Sunday tends to be meals that require little or no cooking. Sunday lunch may be in the road on the way home at a park or rest area.

 

NSP tend to have the best balanced meals, with the meals going towards easier and less nutritious as they get older and the adults stop (give up?) riding them about the meals. Then, somewhere along the way, about 15 they start being more interested in making the effort to make good meals again. Sometimes the nutrition is horrid, they tend to get hungry and start doing better after that. I figure that no one starved to death on a weekend campout. The patrol that has the diabetic does do better than most of the others.

 

We had a "Survivor" campout last fall where the food was provided by the troop. One meal took a couple of hours. From California rolls and tomato juice to squid, octopus and tongue, capped off with silkworm pupae. Now they will eat just about anything. "Hey, it's better than silkworm".

[Buffalo Skipper]

Do you have specific nutritional info on the silkworm? It would be nice to pass along....

[resqman]

Patrols decide menus in the patrol meeting week or two in advance of campout. Adult advisors sit in the back of each patrol meeting so will veto choices if necessary.

 

Breakfasts tend towards pancakes, eggs, precooked bacon/sausage, bagels, oatmeal, fruit. Last month at YLT we introduced "Toad in a Hole" buttered bread with hole cut in middle laid on griddle with egg dropped into hole. Bread becomes toast and keeps the egg from running. When firm, flip and toast other side. Big hit. Was seem at every patrol breakfast at the next campout.

 

Lunches tend to be no cook like sandwhich meats, cheeses, pita or tortilla (bread is already squashed so no complaining), fruit. Occasionally see soups or raviolli

 

Sat evening is a troop theme cookoff. PLC declares theme and all patrols are free to cook anything that meets the theme. Bragging rights and small trinkets are awarded to patrol with best meal. Last months Asian theme was outstanding. One grubmaster went to the asisan grocery store and brought a bunch of bottles and containers with no english text. Ground fresh ginger, sliced, diced and chopped all sorts of stuff to make a wonderful dish. We have been through the most common, Mexican, Italian, Asian, Seafood, etc.

 

Discussions are leaning towards all patrols are required to use the same ingrediants but use different recipies. Another idea was to require the use of a dutch ovens or box ovens for all or portion of meal, mystery ingrediant issued by SM must be incorporated, etc.

 

The competative nature of the boys has really encouraged the patrols to outdo each other with challenging recipies and presentation skills. Gone are the days of hot dogs and hamburgers every campout.

 

We usually forego cracker barrell but the patrols make several dutch oven cobblers and share.

 

Sunday mornings tend to be boil water and cold food options. Bagels, oatmeal/grits, juice, hot coco, cereal bars, fruit. Some cook.

 

Last month at YLT we split them into 2 patrols and they were given recipies and food. One we made bake everything in box or dutch ovens and the other fry everything in turkey fryer. Bakers got fish fillets, corn bread, potatoes, onions, & cheese soup. The fryers got fish filets, batter fixings, hush puppy mix, potatoes. The adults got fish filets, corn bread mix, potatoes, onions, cajon creole seasoning.

 

Bakers were supposed to slice potatoes and onions and mix with chesse in dutch oven. Fryers were expected to thinly slice and make potato chips. Adults diced their potatoes & onions and made hash in fry pan on stove.

 

Bakers baked fish. Fryers made a batter and fried. Adults applied creole seasoning and blackened in cast iron skillet.

 

There was enough that all were able to sample all the various methods of all the ingrediants. We provided the ingrediants, recipies and cooking gear since it was YLT and the participants were not involved in the planning.

 

We are planning on teaching as many of the traditional meal preparation as possible to the NSP. Foil packets, boil-in-bag eggs, egg in orange rind, eggs & bacon in paper bag, using dutch ovens for something besides dessert, box ovens, etc. to add interest and wonder.

 

Sunday lunch is usually overlooked. We are encouraging the scouts to plan a bag lunch they can eat in the cars on the way home.

[Twocubdad]

We don't put too many constraints on the patrols. We do have the ASM who advises the Patrol Leader review the menu. We want the boys to stretch and try new and challenging dishes.

 

We only have two rules: No PopTarts and no Ramah noodles. To easy (not to mention disgusting.) Hot dogs are okay, but I want to see the fixin's to go with them -- chili sauce, cole slaw, chopped onions. (And don't write me about kraut or that neon-green crap from Chicago. I don't care.) We encourage the guys to cook hot meals everytime. Occasionally we'll see cold cuts for lunch, but it's not a big deal. PBJ for lunch and cold cuts for dinner would be an issue, though.

 

A couple time a year we have cooking competitions. Most recently we did a utensil-free dinner in conjunction with a wilderness survival campout. We've done contests which required a Dutch oven. We've had "Iron Chef" competitions where the troop provides a fixed set of ingredients and the patrols take what they have and figure a menu for the weekend. We've had open competitions where the patrol simply tried to make the best meals they could. (The winner showed up with table cloths, candles, plastic wine glasses and sparkling apple cider.)

 

Prizes vary. Generally it's a hot cobbler provided by the adults. If you really want to get their attention, make the grand prize a steak dinner, cooked by the adults, including clean up. That was big!

[Twocubdad]

(Oops, double post)(This message has been edited by Twocubdad)

[gcnphkr]

We ate them cold out of the can. Maybe heated in a stir fry would help. Myself, an ASM, the SPL and ASPLs who thought of it, ate them twice. We tried them a week before just to see how bad they could be. It turns out pretty bad. Think of eating a squishy mud-ball that had just started to get a crust on the outside. Still, I preferred it to the oysters. But then canned oysters are vile.

 

Remarkably, no one got sick. One scout did later, but I think it was dehydration that did him in.

[SctDad]

I love the idea of the Iron Chef.

 

I have started helping with the local Boy Scout troop as I now have some leadership that actually helps in my pack.

 

I think that I may suggest this to the troop and see what they think. The only problem right now is that they only have one patrol and a SPL and ASPL. Low numbers this year, but things are going to pick up in the next few years.

 

What kind of foods would you do for an iron chef. Maybe a new topic.

 

[Buffalo Skipper]

Good news, bad news.

In the past before a campout, one the adult leaders accompanied all scouts (patrols) shopping for food, scrutinized their food selection and paid at the checkout. With the advice received here, I have been moving to change that. At the PLC, the PLs were informed to contact all their patrols in advance to have them bring $10 to the meeting, and with that money they would be doing their grocery shopping for the upcoming campout. SPL was told to give $5 to each patrol (2 attending), as he would be eating with each one day.

 

The PL of the NSP got it. Everyone was called, and brought their money. Tuesday, PL and one patrol member met at the grocery store and did their patrol shopping. They ended up $18 under budget.

 

Second patrol PL (of 6th-7th graders) really didn't get it. He arranged when to be at the grocery store, but no one from his patrol showed up and when no adults arrived to pay, he left without buying groceries. He then solicited a scout who was not attending the campout and the SPL to buy their food the next night, giving the SPL the money (short) and menu which he had on him at the grocery store the previous evening. (I had specifically advised this PL that, even though the SPL was eating 2 meals with is patrol, the SPL was NOT to share any of his patrol duties). The PL was at a track meet.

 

We were practicing lashing at the meeting, and the NSP did all their lashings perfectly, while the other patrol had some kind of tangled wraps. Each had the same support by the troop guide and instructor. I could repeat other stories like this over the past 6 weeks, but you get the idea.

 

I have supported the other PL (we will call him Bob of the Snark patrol) since he was unexpectedly elected 6 weeks ago. I want him to succeed, but for lack of another word, he is just lazy. The PL whom he "ousted" had also struggled, but had been making a great effort, and at the campout right before the election, had really started to get it. We have already lost at least one scout from this patrol (I believe because of poor organization and bad leadership) and I fear that the rest will drop like flies if this continues.

 

I know what I want to do. But I really want to hear your feedback first. Your ideas?

[Stosh]

I guess I really don't see this as bad news. I'm seeing some great response to boy-led from the NSP and your future lies there. It's just getting you through the present that's the challenge.

 

My suggestion:

 

1) If no one wants to lead the older patrol, the SPL steps in and takes over temporarily until he gets another patrol member up and running as a functional PL. As PL of that patrol he picks his best potential leader from the NSP to be his assistant. His role is two-fold, keep the patrol functioning and training someone from that patrol to take over and run themselves. The key word here is functional. It looks like no one wants the job, they all want to be taken care of and they are too lazy to cooperate as a team and no one is ambitious enough to step up to the plate. Maybe it's time to rename them the Welfare Patrol.

 

2) Operate this way for 3 months while the patrol takes TLT and Harcourt training, reorganize themselves into a functional patrol and then release them back into the wilds. It will be benficial for the APL (New Scout) to witness this reorganizational process because he'll be your best bet for next year's NSP PL. Everything he learns in rebuilding a patrol he'll be able to use when the new Webelos cross-over.

 

3) If one is concerned about these boys dropping out, don't be, they are basically in the program just to take for themselves. They will never learn group dynamics and will walk away with a me-me-me-Eagle Patch. How they are ever going to lead a project is beyond my comprehension.

 

4) Look at this "problem" as an opportunity. The potential new scout leader (APL) will get some valuable insight by learning from your best (SPL). The SPL (optional anyway with only 2 patrols) will be able to step in and show his organizational/inspirational metal. The patrol will either step up or drop out, their choice, and those that stay will be excellent scouts.

 

I'm thinking that for the most part the older boys figure they either know-it-all, or are taking advantage of enabling leaders which allow them to sluff off.

 

I'm thinking that from the tone of things you may be transitioning from adult-led to boy-led and during this transition time you will have exactly what you have described. This is not a problem, it is normal. Older boys (adult-led) will do things or try to do things that allow enabling adults to re-step back into the process to save their butts at the last minute. The NSP (boy-led) don't know what adult life-savers are and are stepping up and leading themselves. These transitional times can be very difficult but don't let the boys let you slip back into the old adult-led ways. They'll challenge you, make you feel guilty, and use every other trick a 12-14 year old can come up to avoid growing up. It's normal.

 

Good luck! You've covered all your bases by doing a good job of evaluating the problem, now get the boys involved with a solution that works for themselves. Place your best boys in the key positions and trust them that they can pull off a small miracle. You may be surprised. Reassure your SPL he is really the SPL and that it is his duty as SPL to recruit, train, and inspire PL's. This is what he will be doing by using the patrol as his teaching aid for his potential new PL that will take over. Just remember, a boy in a boy-led program that solves this problem will be 100% better than an adult in a fledgling boy-led program trying to do it. If your SPL (with SM support) pulls off this, you will have a fantastic boy-led program in the long run.

 

Stosh

[Buffalo Skipper]

Thanks Stosh, that is the down to earth advice for which I was looking. The problem is not exactly as you see it, but it is close. Rather than this being a matter of "no one wants the job," it is more of a case of everyone wants the title, but few want the responsibility.

 

Let me tell you more about the "Snark" patrol. Five scouts are 5th graders, coming from the same pack last year. Two of the scouts have been in for 13 months and are still "Scouts" (we used to call them "Brownies," but I guess that may be considered name calling these days); one of these is no longer attending meetings and I believe is disappointed with the troop (his patrol). Both these have good skills. The other 3 are all Tenderfoot, and 3 are close to 2nd class. One is the bugler and his is enthusiastic. Another of this group makes about 1/2 the meetings and less of the outings because he is always on restriction for grades (another thread, not here); he is, by the way, the APL (thinks being the APL is hot snot, but doesn't do much). The last 2 in the patrol are the current and former PLs, who really want the job. Current PL is Tenderfoot, former PL is First Class. Both of these are 7th graders. Current PL really wanted to keep the job, but the other beat him out after 2 rounds of ties.

 

This is really 2 patrols which were merged into one, just 2 months ago, and the SPL was PL of the other patrol. I do like your idea of putting him in charge of the patrol say, until Summer Camp and his selecting his replacement. He sits with (but is not a member of) our "older" patrol, which in reality, is a group of inactive scouts, so putting him here may well do him some good also.

 

I cannot tell you how pleased I am with the NSP. They are working as a team and I expect that, despite bumps they will hit soon enough, they will continue to excel. Most of these scouts have already comleted half their Tenderfoot, but as I posted earlier, they already have good skills.

 

I know this is all good. Learning by mistakes is excellent (you know what I mean) and I will not openly criticize the PL in front of his patrol. I want to act through the SPL, and I do like the idea of putting him directly in charge; conveniently, our troop dynamic fits this circumstance well. Again, thanks.

 

As far as menus go, both patrols sought a simple menu, with burgers on Saturday evening, something different than what I have seen. We will see how well they perform this weekend.

[HICO_Eagle]

We have the boys plan all menus although adults are watching the process to watch for safety issues or offer suggestions or help if asked. We have interjected recently but only because the boys were falling into a rut of the same menus on successive campouts. Typically we choose to lead by example by having the adults plan their menu separately and show the boys that camp food doesn't have to be cold sandwiches and canned soup. We typically cook the both breakfasts and dinner, lunch may be cold unless it's a winter camp.

 

It used to be easier when we had two grocery stores right next to the church we meet at so we're still working on the shopping and budget aspects of their menus (we graduated most of our experienced scouts so most of the troop is a NSP right now).

 

I'm not really a fan of the NSP concept. I've seen troops where it seems to work but I think it takes critical mass in the troop and a lot of guidance. The old mixed patrol method provided more guidance and direct contact between older and younger scouts and gave the older scouts more experience in teaching skills.

 

Be that as it may, I'm with Stosh on viewing this as an opportunity. You have a patrol which is jumping at the chance to make their own program. They'll need a little help but you can keep that enthusiasm going. As far as the "experienced/lazy" patrol goes, I'd have the SPL pay special attention to them and mentor their PL. I would also try to engineer some competition between the patrols on their menus. You can give a special award for creativity, taste competitions, etc. You could run a campout where the adults purchase the food a week ahead of time (or tell the patrols what their grocery list will be) and see what they make of the ingredients -- if you do that, make sure they get to visit each others site and compare their food.

[asm 411]

Stosh: What is "Harcourt training"?