Patrol Food Budget

[FScouter]

We teach boys the various aspects of planning a meal: How many are going, for how long? Backpacking, such that weight or prep methods are a consideration? Hot weather or cold? Nutrition considerations. After considering all this, write a shopping list, get pricing and compute the cost per boy. Budget isnt a part of it.

 

If the committee, or SM, or other well-meaning adult imposes a budget limit, this forces the boy to go back and scrap the other aspects of his meal planning to meet the adult-imposed restriction. Instead, why not let the boy and the patrol see the final cost results of their menu planning choices? When the patrol grubmaster presents the cost per boy figure, there will be pushback from the other boys if the amount is exorbitant, particularly if they must pay out of their own personal pockets.

 

I dont see that we teach anything to boys by imposing a budget limit. Perhaps thats why the Handbook is silent on the idea.

[Buffalo Skipper]

If your patrols are shopping independently of troop activity, how do you handle common items, like bags, charcoal, paper towels? Are they bought by the troop and distributed through the QM?

 

And if the patrols collect the money for their own grub (either with a troop-imposed or patrol-imposed budget), does the troop collect an additional fee for a campout? If so how much?

 

I am not complaining about this method; in fact, I really like this idea (which is different than our troop does it), and want to see our patrols working this way as well.

[Horizon]

Our troop charges a $15 camping fee per Scout. A Scout who provides a round-trip driver does not pay the camping fee.

Patrols collect $15 from each member for the food budget, and carry over some excess at times. Patrols are required to get SPL sign-off on their menu before the trip.

 

The troop provides the following: Propane & Charcoal.

 

Paper towels are not allowed, neither is bottled water.

[Stosh]

The argument that patrols of 2-3 boys can't buy as efficiently as patrols of 7-8 is bogus. I can out plan and out resource my meal menus by myself better than 8 boys can. The only real area of concern is the purchasing of perishables. Dry mixes can be saved from event to event, this includes pancakes, waffles, potatoes, grits, cereals, rice, pasta, popcorn, etc. Canned goods can as well, same for condiments. Yes, I buy a sizeable box of spaghetti of which I only take 1/8th, but then it lasts me 8 outings. Just leave it in the chuck box. Same for rice and instant potatoes. Over the course of 8 events, I can outsave a patrol of 8 anyday. Planning for the extras is just as important as the menu itself. Very seldom do I ever take milk, butter, eggs, or bread, but a small little carton of Egg Beaters works just fine. A person can put together great meals with no waste regardless of the size of the group.

 

First class scouts should all know how this process works. If not, how did they get the rank badge?

 

Stosh

[highcountry]

We created a budget figure for the boys to plan against. Without some sort of guidelines for the boys to think around things get unorganized.

We have a budget figure of 3 bucks per scout per meal which is actually a little low when you consider this includes Propane, Mantles, Lantern Globes, Batteries and other consumables. Adult leaders attending events do not kick in for thier food costs, the $3 per kid per meal provides enough to cover the adults who are donating their time vehicles and gasoline to make it happen. It also includes enough to provide drinks, snack bars and fruit and crackerbarrel. We have trained the boys that if they plan anything to the heavy side of estimated quantity, to do so on the non perishibles so they can go to stocking lockup pantry. Once in a while we can do a cheap campout using lockup stock and the extra money then restocks the consumables like Propane etc at that time. We have 2 supermarkets and a third source where we get donated or greatly discounted food items to help reduce cost.

The boys plan the meals, figure the costs, generate the grocery list etc. The CC gets the groceries, he is on diability and is home during the weekdays and has free time to get this accomplished where all the other adult leaders work down in the city and don't make it home weeknights til after 6 pm. We plan, cook and eat as a troop, I have heard all kinds of agruements about using Patrol method but my reality is it simply will not work in our troop. With Troop method there is one grocery list, patrol method could create 3 lists. If I had to have 3 seperate folks be depended on to get out and shop I would always have one who forgot or didn't have the time etc. Our campouts have a mix on the patrols, some have all 7 show up while another patrol may only have one or two, the other might have 3. From initial sign up to who actually attends changes too. I might have 15 sign up, 3 of the leader core, and 4 from each patrol, but when we actually go, we have 12 attend, say 2 from the leader core, one from patrol A, 3 from Patrol B and 7 from patrol C. With troop menu and one overall grocery shop we are covered, had we shopped 3 individual patrols, we would have some with too little of their ingredients, some with too much of thier ingredients and one patrol with one kid cooking alone. We do have Each patrol cook one item for the meal, and that is their contribution toward the troop dinner.

[imasoonerfan]

Our boys have a budget of $13 per Scout. Any overage comes back to the SM and he keeps that in case there is an overage and they get a refund. They must submit a receipt before we leave on Friday night.

 

Charcoal and propane are provided by the Troop.

 

Every patrol has staples in their patrol boxes as well.

 

That amount was set by the Committee by a recommondation of the SM.

[sweetspiritpamh]

Learning about shopping was a awesome lesson I have watched my son grow with. We live in day of cell phones so when my son went the fist time he took his list into Wal Mart and asked me to shop somewhere else in store. Before going the check out he called me to come look over his cart for suggetions. I am a very frugal shopper. I first time he accepted my ideas. Since then he has been able to make some pretty mature choices. I will always remember the time he found out that the sirloin steak was on sale and actually cheaper than making hambugers with buns, cheese, lettuce and tomoto. Our troop typically plans on 8-10 dollars for a big Saturday Breakfast (omelets are their favorite), Lunch, Dinner, and a easy Sunday Breakfast. Then on the trip home everyone brings about $5.00 to stop at Dairy Queen(a Texas small town Burger and ice cream Place. The troop usually charges between $10-$15.00 for the camp out because they have a old school bus and that goes in the gas tank and then the program supplies(ex. ammo) has really jumped in price last camp.

Its not a cheap weekend but I really believe to do quality program it costs nowadays even for a tightwad like I am.

[gwd-scouter]

I think imposing a budget does teach the boys a valuable lesson. We all must learn to live within a budget - or at least we should. If no budget is imposed and the per boy cost for food is high, the pushback will not come from the Scouts - it will come from the parents. In our Troop, I know of only two Scouts that actually use their own money to pay for trips and food - my son and another older Scout. I do wish the "Scout is Thrifty" law - a Scout pays his own way - was taken more seriously (or given any consideration) by parents, but in our Troop it just isn't so.

 

As for our trip costs and food costs. They are combined into one fee which, with the exception of the two boys mentioned above, is paid by the parents usually in the form of a check. We do ask for them to pay in cash whenever possible. That way, when the grubmaster for a patrol is selected, he is given cash to go shopping. We will reimburse if he goes over, but our experience is that these guys try very hard to stay in their budget and are enormously proud when they do - always bringing me the receipt to show how well they did.

 

As far as big items like charcoal and propane, the quartermaster checks the supply before we leave for a trip. If anything is needed, he tells our ASM/quartermaster and he guys whatever is necessary out of Troop funds. We keep a food box with left over nonperishables the guys can go through before shopping to see if they can use anything. They have gotten better about bringing some things from home rather than buying new - spices for instance - which saves them money.

 

The worst money waste seems to come from orange juice. Guys always have that on their breakfast menus and then hardly drink it. I brought home four full containers of OJ from our last campout. Good news - brought it back to Monday's meeting and the new Scouts were happy to drink it after they worked on their Tenderfoot fitness requirement.

[Stosh]

"I think imposing a budget does teach the boys a valuable lesson"

 

I think it, however, teaches the lesson that they are not boy-led. It's not a lesson I wish to teach.

 

Stosh

[gwd-scouter]

Guess we will just have to disagree on that, Stosh.

[FScouter]

The push-back comes from the parents because they don't like paying a lot for their kid's food. The solution is to have the boys earn their own way. Simply re-direct the push to the boys. If the Scoutmaster or other troop adults absorb this "push", they're merely protecting the boys, ensuring they don't learn what they could learn, given the chance.

 

The budget idea is a way to help the boys learn, but the opportunity is better if they develop the budget themselves.

[Twocubdad]

No set budget.

 

I've never had a parent complain that the food for a weekend cost too much. We're usually pushing in the opposite direction -- for the boys to try more challenging menus which usually end up costing more.

 

We have had a problem of the grubmaster failing to collect from each Scout and getting stuck footing the bill. The Scout forgot to bring the money on the campout, the grubmaster didn't attend the next meeting, they didn't have the right change the week later, yadda, yadda, yadda.

 

We're trying a new thing the PLC worked out (with some SM input). Not a budget, but a new method of handling the money. Everyone pays $20 in advance, regardless of the menu or number of meals (assuming a normal weekend campout). That gives the grubmaster the money in advance with which to go shopping. It also solves the change making problem as the grubmaster know exactly how much he has to refund everyone from their $20, Also, if the patrol goes over $20, the GM still collects the difference, never more than a couple bucks. That way, if the boys don't collect the money, they're out only a couple bucks.

 

The first campout using this was a disaster. The troop treasurer decided he needed to collect the money. (We've never done that before, the boys have always been responsible). The outingings chairman decided $20 wasn't enough and put $27 on the sign-up. That created a disaster trying to make change. We spend an hour at the following committee meeting with all the committee adults explaining why they needed to be involved. My position was that the boys had handled the money for food for years. If the new process moved away from that, we would go back to the old system, warts and all.

 

Of course the PLC enjoyed watching the adults melt down for a change.

[Horizon]

Stosh - I understand your point. However, it is very dependent on the troop I think. I have some extremely wealthy families in my troop, combined with some single moms (My area has both multi-million dollar homes and a university campus). If the boys set their budgets, some grubmasters would just grab their parent's ATM card and go camping with prime cuts of filet, throwing away the excess.

 

By forcing a budget, even those who do not need to be on a budget learn TO budget. It also means that the poor kids don't get socked with a food bill that is beyond their family's means.

[Stosh]

Horizon - you make an excellent point. There will always be those out there that can't afford steak and lobster at outings.

 

And here's the "but" - but shouldn't the boys in the patrol be aware of this and be sensitive to the needs of everyone in their patrol and not just the adults making the "rules"? If the adults were to say $15 budget (because they know the financial constraints) this doesn't allow the boys to know that not everyone can afford scouting expenses. I want all my boys to know that not everyone can cough up big bucks for expensive trips so they need to work on this as a patrol. This then will lead the boys to the next step beyond the menu's and when they make activity plans they include freebie activities like hiking and biking, and that when the Philmont trip rolls around they as a patrol will need to evaluate the situation so that ALL the boys get a chance to go. As a patrol, they have bake sales, wreath sales, etc. and they go the extra mile to make sure everyone can go, not just the rich kids. I don't see it as a good thing that the rich kid doesn't roll up his sleeves to help his patrol buddies because his parents can fork over the $$'s to cover his expense and his buddy whose parent can't afford it gets left behind. Looking out for your buddies is a prime requirement of any aspiring leader.

 

Stosh

[Horizon]

Stosh:

 

I dunno. Honestly. In a perfect world, the boys would talk about their dad being out of work, that they can't afford summer camp, etc. The boys who are secure in their personal identity will happily state that they can not spend that amount. I am worried about the quiet Scout who hides his financial status and simply "misses" a campout or three due to finances.

 

Maybe I am being overly sensitive due to personal history - I just don't want a boy to HAVE to admit to financial problems during the Patrol meeting. Then again, I might be trading one lesson for another.

 

You have given me something to think about - thanks.