No power to right things

[stevo0880]

I am the SPL of a troop in new york, and since I joined, six years ago, it had been my goal to improve my troop. That isn't entirely true, it was about a year after I joined that The troop lost its quality. Originally I thought that the problem was the PLC, but then I became a patrol leader, and realized yes the PLC was the problem, however the real problem was that the people of my troop don't run the PLC how it should be run. The patrol leaders don't ask their members if they have any ideas to bring up to the PLC. I did this every week but it really never stuck and have basically given up on this. Recently the main issue that is concerning me is lack of respect. I am only 15 but I am apauled at the social decline in the incoming generations. This is especialy potent in my troop because a large majority of our older members have left the troop and we now have about 30 newer member who show no respect for older members. When I joined there wasn't a question about respect, you did it even if you didn't like the person, and you didn't question it, it was just that way. But it wasn't a fear respect it was more of an admire respect and currently there is almost no way to gain the admire, and I don't think the fear would really help. All of these issues have been made even worse by an incoming group of adult leaders that treat the scouts like cubscouts which will not help at all. I only have 3 months left in my term and if I am not able to inspire others to take an intrest then not only will i not be reelected but it will turn into a popularity contest for underqualifyed persons. please help.

 

(This message has been edited by stevo0880)(This message has been edited by stevo0880)

[Mike F]

stevo,

 

You're doing fine and have a lot on the ball for a 15yo SPL.

 

One of the things I've heard for many years when the guys get to be about your age is a remorse that the troop has changed because we don't have the cool older guys around any more. I tell them to take a good look at those goofy junior guys. A few years ago you were one of them. Now go look in the mirror. To those guys, YOU are one of the cool older guys they'll be talking about for the rest of their lives.

 

Have fun - be outrageous - keep things stirred up a bit.

 

Try something different with PLC. Instead of holding meetings in a boring room, consider meeting at a pizza place. Maybe a PLC campout would help get them and the rest of your staff working together better.

 

Discipline. The best way to approach this is within the PLC. If you can get them to agree troop discipline isnt where it needs to be, you can work together to fix it. It doesnt do any good for you (or your SM) to stand up front and talk if your entire leadership team isnt engaged. One idea for troop formations is for each PL to have his biggest, most senior guy, standing at the other end of the patrol from you. If anyone acts up, his job is to fix it.

 

Talk to your SM about your concerns. Go easy on criticizing new adults directly, but talk about how to step up the expectations for the troop and reducing adult interference. Also talk to him about your concerns and ideas for improving discipline before you engage the PLC. If necessary, have him standing nearby when you begin to take steps to improve so theres no question you have his full support. As things take hold, he can move to the back of the room or all the way out of the room.

 

Left to their own whims, activities with boys of scouting age tend to decay to chaos. Your challenge as a leader is to get them to see a different vision where - through discipline - you get the work done, then have time for some real scouting fun.

 

Keep up the great work!

[Stosh]

Welcome to Leadership 101 Stevo. It would seem that you have identified the #1 problem with Leadership. If I lead and no one follows, what's the sense in trying to lead?

 

Might I suggest at the next PLC one takes a different track. Instead of trying to lead, say something like: "Ok, you are not interested in following me, how about you telling me what you need and I'll do my best to help you get there." This way the onus of leading falls on them and you will assist them in their goals. They are given ownership of the problems/goals. Right now, they have no goals, only your suggestions. The ownership is yours, not theirs. Once they establish goals for their patrols, you as SPL do all you can do to help make them successful. This way, when the patrol succeeds, the PL gets the credit and yet, he'll follow you and your advice every goal he sets from that point onward. If he fails, then help him reorganize and get him back into the game. The more you are able to help the more he will in actuallity follow you and your advice. As a SPL in my troop, he is not to lead the troop he is to empower the PL's to lead their patrols. Whenever a PL is having problems, all the SPL does is ask the question, "What do you need me to do to help you?" If the onus of leadership is kept on the PL's they will learn to lead and the SPL will in fact be the key person that makes it happen, i.e. a leader of leaders.

 

Stosh

[Gunny2862]

Continuing Leadership 101 Stevo0880,

 

Leaders lead.

 

It's who they are and whether anyone follows or not, leaders do the right thing.

 

?Are YOU doing the right things?

Do you know your Scout skills?

Do you live the Scout Oath & Law - and not just at Scouting?

 

Do YOU show others the respect for authority you are asking for?

 

If you set the example, know your stuff, and the others know(not from you telling them but because they see what you do and know it's real) that you really want Scouting to be fun for the others - they'll come around. If not, take another look at yourself - seek to constantly improve yourself.

 

It is true you have no power, other than what others lend you and they will only lend it to you when they see that you will use it FOR rather than ON them.

 

I see the comment above by stosh and mine to be completely in sync.(This message has been edited by Gunny2862)

[Kudu]

stevo0880 writes:

 

"The patrol leaders don't ask their members if they have any ideas to bring up to the PLC. I did this every week but it really never stuck and have basically given up on this. "

 

Don't give up. Hold a demonstration "Public PLC Meeting" so the entire Troop (including the adults) can see how it is supposed to work:

 

1. Put a table in the center of your meeting room for the PLC.

 

2. Arrange the Patrols in chairs around the table so that each Patrol is close to the PLC table, but as far apart from any other Patrol as possible.

 

3. Because you are having problems with discipline, have the Scoutmaster place one or two adults near (BUT NOT IN!) each Patrol to keep the Scouts AND the adults from talking during your public PLC meeting.

 

4. Seat the PLC at the table, stand up and tell the Troop that this is how your PLC works: Their Patrol Leader is supposed to ask them for their ideas at a Patrol Meeting and then represent them at the PLC meeting.

 

5. Announce that this evening you will be planning an upcoming event, something the Scouts care about. If your Troop has a game period every week, then I suggest that you plan the games for the rest of the month. Or if you always play the same game and everybody likes it that way, then maybe you can use this PLC meeting just to plan the theme and the fun stuff for the next campout. This short PLC meeting should actually decide something for real, but pick a topic that can be discussed and voted on in less than ten (10) minutes. Do NOT let this get boring!

 

6. Then send the Patrol Leaders back to their Patrols for a Patrol Meeting with your usual reminder to ask their Patrol members for their ideas and to write them down.

 

7. Allow the Patrols to meet for maybe five to eight minutes.

 

8. Call the Patrol Leaders back to the PLC table and hold a real PLC meeting to plan the actual games for the rest of the month or the theme and fun stuff for the next campout. Make the meeting VERY SHORT, give each Patrol Leader no more than a minute to speak, then hold a vote, then announce the final plans.

 

9. The most important rule is NO WHISPERING. You must have absolute silence. The Patrols are NOT allowed to whisper reminders to their Patrol Leaders about the ideas they forgot. When this does happen (and it will), stop the meeting, make eye contact with the adult nearest to the whispering Patrol and remind everyone that NO whispering is allowed.

 

10. When the PLC meeting is over and plans have been made final, stand up and ask each Patrol in turn (with all of the other Scouts in the Troop remaining absolutely silent) how they well they think their Patrol Leader represented them. Did he remember all their ideas? If a Patrol is especially outraged at their Patrol Leader, ask them why they elected him.

 

stevo0880 writes:

 

"Recently the main issue that is concerning me is lack of respect."

 

The correct tool is the Scout Sign:

 

1) It is natural for boys to make a lot of noise and to want to move around rather than sit still.

 

2) Make sure that your Scouts have plenty of activities in which they can make noise and move around. Do not turn a Scout Meeting into school.

 

3) But when they cross the respect line you must use the Scout Sign to quiet everyone down and restore order.

 

4) At home practice your "game face," a look that without saying anything, tells everyone that the group has crossed the line and you are now "serious as a heart attack" about discipline and respect.

 

5) When you do raise the Sign, hold your wristwatch up while you stand with the Scout Sign raised. When things finally get quiet announce how long it took everyone to get quiet and that much time will be taken from the game period that evening.

 

6) If your Troop is in the habit of yelling "Sign's UP!" Remind everyone that yelling anything, including "Sign's UP!" is totally BOGUS in a well disciplined Troop.

 

7) If you can talk your Scoutmaster into it, arrange to have the SPL and the Patrol Leaders as the sole "Keepers of the Sign." If an adult wants to address the Troop, he must ask you or the nearest Patrol Leader to raise the Sign. Adults should have learned at training that the SPL and Patrol Leaders run the Troop.

 

stevo0880 writes:

 

"I only have 3 months left in my term and if I am not able to inspire others to take an interest then not only will i not be reelected but it will turn into a popularity contest for underqualifyed persons. "

 

If you are serious about the Scout Sign, you can radically change your Troop Culture in a single week if you also have FUN stuff planned, but you MUST stick to your guns, BE FAIR, and be in constant conversation with the Scoutmaster.

 

By the way, do NOT let anyone tell you that you should ever step down and not run for reelection. Scouting was invented by a general named Lord Baden-Powell, and he believed that the most qualified boy-leaders should run the Troop, not step down for popularity contests and to give less qualified Scouts "their turn to learn how to be a leader."

 

There is no official BSA rule that says you must step down after a year. If your Troop has such a rule but you succeed at turning your unit into a model Troop, then use your wits and popularity to get that rule changed.

 

Yours in the Old School,

 

Kudu

 

[Eagle92]

Kudu gave an excellent tool to use: the scout sign. Game time caqme near the end of the troop meeting, and everytime the sign came up to correct someone, that took time away from the game. usually once a year, when the new scouts would come into the troop, we would lose a game time. After that we were good to go.

 

Don't do what some folks do and scream "Signs up." A very simple thing to say in a calm demeanor is "Gentlemen I got all night."

[Stosh]

We don't use Scout Sign to quiet the boys. Every boy that comes into the troop from a Pack is taught to quiet down when the leader puts up the sign. However, when that leader does so they interrupt the boys and their conversation. Instead, when I come to the front and wish their attention, I stand there and wait for their conversations to finish, then begin. After I begin, I expect them to not interrupt me because I gave them respect and didn't interrupt them. There's never been a need to use the Scout sign in the troop. Surprisingly, the only person that has ever asked the boys to wrap up their conversation has been their PL's when they see a leader come to the front to address them.

 

Stosh

[eghiglie]

Our last SPL had the same complaint about respect and getting boys to listen to him.

 

Despite the fact that he was the oldest boy and knew what he was doing, he was also the shortest. For some reason the boys prefer the tallest boy to be in charge. Don't know why. He is 13, and even shorter than the 11 year olds.

 

I've been told that the taller boys are feared, not respected.

 

How the short SPL overcame this was rather simple. He showed he was an expert camping cook and desert maker. On a overnight backpacking trip he was the only boy who had a hot meal and it was a somewhat chilly night. He used a homemade achohol stove that he made from a soda can. After that all the boys wanted to learn how he did it.

 

He is just one requirement away from Eagle.

 

[NeilLup]

Hello Steveo,

 

You have made some wonderful observations. It's very tough for a youth leader in Scouting because, for you and for the younger Scouter, this may be their first real example of peer leadership. All their previous experience has been with a very hierarchical leadership (parent to child, teacher to pupil, den leader to Cub Scout). Now, the leadership is with another youth and it's a new experience.

 

So your Troop members need to be trained on how to be followers in peer leadership just as the leaders need to be trained and it's particularly difficult if your Troop adults don't understand and don't buy in.

 

Here's one suggestion. It's one that parents of young children learn to use and it may help with your younger Scouts too. In asking their opinion, don't give too many choices and too many options. One doesn't ask a two year old what they'd like for dinner. One asks "Would you like to eat your peas or your carrots first?" So they are learning to make choices but from a tolerable and manageable range.

 

Similarly, you might not initially ask your Scouts where they'd like to go camping. Rather, you might start by listing two camping options and having them choose which one they'd like to go to. Then, after they make a choice, you might ask if there are other places they'd like to consider for next month. Or you could assign one place to be considered to each PL and they report on their assigned place and then the PLC decides.

 

The idea is that they have "bite sized" choices and their capability for leading and for following gradually grows.

 

Not doing this was a mistake that I made as a young Scoutmaster. I asked the "where would you like to go" question and got blank stares.

 

It sounds as if you're doing a great job. Keep it up.

[theysawyoucomin']

Steve you have received some very good advice by all here.

 

Just remember if you give up then chaos wins.

 

 

 

Look at some edmund burke quotes

 

No one could make a greater mistake than he who did nothing because he could do only a little.

Edmund Burke

 

 

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

Edmund Burke

 

 

Good luck Steve, nobody said it was easy.