getting to patrol method

[GKlose]

I'm sure many of you have faced this problem, so why not bring it up...certainly there's no shortage of "troop method" troops. Say an adult comes into the troop and sees an ingrained culture of "troop method". Virtually none of the scouts have ever experienced anything like the patrol method, and are quite content at being passive and having everything planned for them.

 

If a new adult leader were to try and push for wholesale change, that wouldn't go over very well. But the adult might be able to help facilitate small, subtle steps moving the troop in the right direction.

 

What kinds of things have you done that helped facilitate change in a troop?

 

I could give all kinds of examples from my own situation that haven't worked out, so I'm interested in hearing about successes.

 

Thanks,

Guy

[Stosh]

Start small and start at the beginning. Make sure every event shows some progress no matter how small. We start with Tenderfoot requirement of learning a patrol flag and yell. I used BP's 8 boys to a patrol and suggested the boys divide themselves up into groups of 6-8 boys and form up their own patrol. That may take an entire troop meeting, but in the end each one of the boys have made their first leadership decisions. The next meeting have them decide however means they want to select their PL and APL. If this takes all meeting long, don't worry, they have now made their second leadership decisions. Each step is important! Never underestimate it, don't question it, don't even comment on it, it's their decision, they have decided and it's a good thing, trust that they made the right choice but be ready to pick them up, dust them off and set them on their way again when it isn't. Until that happens don't worry about it.

 

The PL's are then trained to keep their boys fiercely segregated from the other patrols. They plan, learn, work and play together as a group under the guidance of their PL. The only other two people that carry flags (6' closet rod with hook in the end and bullet shaped pendant for a patrol flag, either hand made or purchased off of E-Bay.) are the SPL and ASPL who have flags with 3 or 2 1/2 green bars on them. That way at any given time the adults know where everyone is. The only time that the troop gathers is for flags and training, but then the boys always sit together as a patrol. Any friendly competition between patrols that will naturally develop on their own is to be encouraged.

 

My Venturing Crew has to learn the Civil War manual of arms/drill in order to participate on the field. Every year we go back to square one and learn it all over as if everyone is new. This review is not a problem for the older boys because they eventually do all the training. ATTENTION TO DETAIL is vital and it applies to the patrols as well. At FIRST CALL from the SPL, the PL's pick a spot in the room, raise their flag and give their call to gather up their boys. Then they do a quick roll call and uniform inspection to make sure everyone is ready. At FALL IN the boys move as a patrol to their spot for the opening flags. All these motions are designed to have PL's gather up their people and get them ready in a routine everyone else is using (comfort in familiarity). This might be done at any time for any reason and the patrols can form the troop up in about 1-2 minutes in a rush. There's always a little competition going on as to who can get their boys collected up the quickest. As time goes on these friendly mini-competitions become more and more prevelent.

 

Interference by adults is prohibited unless requested by the PL and then only for the duration of how long it takes to give help. The boys do all their own planning such as advancement, games, etc. and they determine on their own when they are going to be doing each of them. I notice all the time, no two patrols are doing the same thing at the same time. One may have the ropes out learning knots, another doing a game, still some others are reading their handbooks, etc.

 

The SPL moves from patrol to patrol throughout the evening and will remain quiet unless addressed by the PL. If the PL doesn't need any help the SPL moves on to the next patrol. The SPL is responsible for evaluating the activities and making an occasional "suggestion" when he sees a PL struggling and not asking for help. The SPL is the #1 supportive role in the troop. He's there to help make the PL look good in front of his boys.

 

At the end of the evening the PLC meets for a quick 5-minute After Action Review by the SPL to make sure they were all satified with their accomplishments. This little gathering is often times a way to brag up their patrol saying they did this or that. It often inspires other more sluggard patrols to get their act together, too.

 

When the new Webelos boys come into the troop, take the very next meeting and start the TLT, Green Bar Patrol, training sessions. The first year this will probably have to be done by the SM, but after that it's done by the SPL/ASPL. Once they understand the full scope of what is trying to be done, then they are left to start implementing it in their small groups. If there is a NSP, the TG is responsible to reinforce in the boys that which was taught and to be their #1 cheerleader for all the neat things they can expect to plan out for themselves.

 

If the troop gathers as a whole, the SPL becomes the master of ceremony for the situation. COH for example.

 

At the end of the evening the patrols gather once again in their areas, and fall in for flags. If the PL is still busy with the PLC AAR, the APL can do this with the patrol flag. It's a good learning process for the PL's successor or a patrol of his own some day. Once flags are done and SM minute and last minute reminders about upcoming events are done, the SPL's last words are "Patrol Leaders, take charge of your patrols." They then move off from the flag line, any last minute instructions by the PL and then they are dismissed by the PL's.

 

This is the routine my troop has developed and the boys like the continuity of it and they find comfort in knowing they are in the right place at the right time.

 

For us the PL is the most senior of officers in the troop. Troop officers and adults support his work and leadership, they never direct the patrols in any fashion or manner unless it's a safety issue or the PL has requested it.

 

Once the basics/foundations are established, then some leeway can be allowed as each patrol develops into its own identity.

 

Once the boys realize they are pretty much on their own and there will be no outside influence (or interference), they will begin to figure out that they are the ones that are going to need to step up and make it happen. At first there will be a lot of waiting around for someone to come and help. Once that help becomes routine, the autonomy of the patrol will break down. The quicker they figure this out the quicker they will accept the patrol method and take charge of their own programming.

 

Once these basics are mastered, then the next step is in developing patrol cooperation using the PLC as the communication contact point.

 

Patrol method is accomplished with each patrol working/playing/learning as an independent group. It is polished and refined through the inter-patrol cooperation of the PL's in the PLC.

 

From this model it is easy to see why the troop officers are not part of any patrol. The patrol QM shouldn't have to find/know where the Troop QM is if he's in another patrol somewhere. He's with the TOC group and that is marked with an ASPL flag and is visible from any place at any time.

 

Stosh

[baschram645]

Gklose,

we gave them a taste of freedom. Scheduled a campout, had each patrol make up a menu and then after we reviewed them we told the PL's that each patrol will pool their money from the members, buy their own groceries and be responsible for making sure that they had their own food. When we arrived at camp each patrol got to pick their own camp site, and were told that they were on their own. They had to do for themselves and they took to it like ducks to water. Now we have the older boys trained and they know what is expected of them. Each year when the New scouts come up from Cubs we start over but we now have a group of trainers (Troop Guides).

 

As SM, I relate to the parents that go camping with us that they are not to interfere with the PL's and they are a member of the Adult patrol. There is no hovering allowed. The adults camp together and the boy's do not stay with their parents.

 

This took alot of doing and we made some mistakes along the way, but the scouts learned that if they forgot something they made an effort next time or they didn't need it anyway. The adults learned that we must ensure the training of the scouts, and to let go. The result is the scouts are more self reliant and we dont have to do so much.

 

[Kudu]

I have that "opportunity" now with the Scout Troop in my new neighborhood: a highly successful "mega-Troop" with good older-boy retention, but adult-run.

 

The Patrol Method depends on some kind of ADVENTURE because form follows function.

 

Patrol Hikes (Hike Themes as entertainment) are a place to start.

 

If the adults can stand it, separate the Patrols from each other on monthly Troop campouts as Baden-Powell recommended.

 

Kudu

 

[GKlose]

Thanks guys, I really appreciate the followup. But, Kudu, I think you hit the key phrase: "if the adults can stand it"...what if the adults don't know any better, or in fact are rather unwitting in interfering in the process.

 

So, with this opportunity you have -- is this as an new adult leader in that troop, or is it as a UC or something like that? How will you, or do you, help steer the ingrained culture in the right direction?

 

Stosh -- I got your points, and I think they are invaluable advice. But, if at step 1 (let them form patrols, etc), what if there is adult interference (albeit, well-intentioned in the sense that I don't think they are intending to undermine the process, but it just happens)?

 

(I'm kind of purposefully staying away from actual specifics, although I know it makes this discussion a little more difficult).

 

Thanks,

Guy

[OldGreyEagle]

"what if there is adult interference (albeit, well-intentioned in the sense that I don't think they are intending to undermine the process, but it just happens)?"

 

I always get this confused, its either Mr Miyagi or Yoda thats says, "there is no try, only do or do not". I will paraphrase that to "there is no boy lead if adults interfere," no matter how well intentioned. Took me a long time to stifle myself because things werent done the way I knew they should or the best way (to me). Oddly enough give enough time, the youth do make the right moves, you just have to have faith, and a strong stomach

[Stosh]

Good point, I missed it. The SM MUST do as much training for the adults as he does for the boys. All my ASM's are screened by the CC when they put in their application for leadership in the troop, especially those that will have direct contact (or lack of contact) with the boys. The first question he asks is their views on the patrol-method. If they are unaware of the concept, the next question is how much they are open to the training. The adults "sit in" on the TLT and GB patrol training so they get a thorough understanding of what the program is trying to accomplish.

 

Once the adults are trained, then the parents come next. Open forums are held, especially when their son first joins, to inform them of what the troop program is trying to accomplish for their boy's development over the next few years. They can ask any and all questions and they are fielded by the CC and SM who chair-host the forum. If after the forum the parent is not comfortable with the setup, they can decide for themselves if they wish their boy to continue. I have never had anyone pull their son from the program because of the program. On the contrary, word of mouth goes around the community and often times our troop is sought out for their boys.

 

I also go through many of the dynamics their boy may face and how as leaders we deal with it. Homesickness, bullying, etc. are all addressed in the forum and instructional information is given them as to how they can get their questions answered. For example, if they want to know when the next outing is, what to have their boy bring, etc. that gets addressed to the PL. If it is a bit more serious, i.e. bullying or harrassment, they can call the SPL or the SM/CC any time any day.

 

If there be situations where an adult interferes in a patrol, the PL has an options. If he chooses he might want to address the issue with the SM or CC. I or the CC, then deal with the adult and how the boy perceives the problem. It is remarkable how quickly the adults come on board. We have all been in agreement that every comment to a PL is started out with: "May I suggest...." or "Have you ever thought about doing it...?" The only other comment a leader uses frequently is "Is there anything I can do to help?" Phrases like "I would like you to ..." or "You need to..." are forbidden. Any time a PL feels "pressured" by an adult he has the right to answer, "With all due respect...." without any repercussion. He's not allowed to fly off the handle or speak in disrespectful tones.

 

All our boys are addressed by Mr. _________ as a sign of respect to them and their position in the troop. When I first started with this troop it was standard operating procedure to address the SM by his first name which the boys did. I always addressed them by title and last name and without any big deal the boys have followed suit. If respect is given, respect is returned. Just for fun about 6 months ago I started saluting the boys when I greet them, they do a sheephish salute, but things are changing. Just a little fun on my part to eventually demonstrate to the boys how to lead by example.

 

Whenever I see an adult leader doing what I think is over-stepping his bounds with a PL or TOC member, I gently ask that person if I might have a word with them in private. This interrupts the "interference" he might be doing and allows the PL an opportunity to know that he's being "protected" without having to deal with interfering adults. Once we are out of ear-shot of the boy, I just remind the leader what we're trying to do with boy-led and is there anything I can do to help with what may have been a problem with the PL? About 99% of the time the adult agrees with the program and that's the end of the conversation. A couple of times I had misread the situation and so I apologized and called the PL over so that the adult and PL could continue on with their conversation.

 

Respect regardless of age is key in maintaining the leadership in the hands of the boys.

 

Stosh

[BrentAllen]

Guy,

If the SM doesn't buy into the concept, you are going to have a pretty hard time with any change. If you can get the SM's ear and get him to really listen to your argument, you might have a chance at trying some baby steps. If you can't convince him that the Patrol Method idea is workable, your final argument might be - Scouting is an experiment. It always has been. Let's just try it and see what happens. If it doesn't work out, we can at least say we tried. But to say we have tried, we have to give the idea an honest chance. Let's try it for a certain period of time (probably at least 3 months) and see if we have any success.

 

The nature of those baby steps would be determined based on where the Troop is now. Are the patrols really run by their Patrol Leaders? Does the PLC plan the Troop meetings? Does the SPL chair the PLC meetings? Take a look at every step in preparing for a meeting or a campout, and see if an adult is doing the task, or a Scout. For those the adults are doing, can a Scout be given the task? Start with a few tasks, and add more as the boys can handle them. Duty Rosters and menu planning/food buying may be good places to start for campouts.

 

For meetings, are different patrols in charge of different parts of the meeting? We have one patrol in charge of the gathering activity/game. The other patrol is in charge of the opening ceremony (these rotate every week). Do you have a Scribe who records attendance?

 

If this plan is laid out correctly, the adult leaders should see their jobs actually getting easier. They don't have to do as much of the planning, it's up to the boys. If you can get the adult leaders pointed in this direction, you have won more than half the battle. Now you just slowly start transfering more planning work from the adults to the boys. Pretty soon, you won't even remember the "old way" the Troop was run. :-)

 

Good luck!

 

One final thought - if the adults are interfering with the meetings, set up some activity in another room to get them out of the way. Whether it is discussing an upcoming trip or training, or talking about MB counseling, find something to get them out of the room. I know some Troops that only allow uniformed leaders in the room for Troop meetings. That gets rid of most of the adults. If your uniformed leaders are causing the problem, that is going to be a little harder to do.(This message has been edited by BrentAllen)

[GKlose]

Thanks guys, I really appreciate the input.

 

OGE -- my "well-intentioned" remark was an awkward one to write. I think the adults involved don't necessarily have much prior experience with scouting, and don't know how a boy-led troop operates. As a result, I think they are perhaps a little too quick at stepping in, and at the same time not realizing how it subverts the process.

 

It is awkward for a newer adult leader, like me, to come in and immediately start offering suggestions. I've stayed away from doing that, because I certainly don't want to step on toes. The same thing goes for pointing out situations where the boy-led process is being undermined. I do like working with these guys, and I don't want to offend them.

 

This forum has been a tremendous resource -- there's been some interesting practical advice on how to transition. The next step seems to be to figure out how to convince the SM and the CC on making lasting changes.

 

Thanks,

Guy

[OldGreyEagle]

often the best skill an adult can have is paitience, let the youth figure it out for themselves, in an absolute no other way but adult situatin environmet, ask the youth leaders what the problem is, let them define it, let them come up with solutions, let them decide the course to take. it may not always be how you would do it, but if it works, that's the point. Sorry if I was gruff, I did not intend to be

[GKlose]

OGE, I didn't interpret your response as gruff at all. I understood exactly where you are coming from. I think I know why "boy-led" is failing in this case, but it isn't because of an overall need for the troop adults to be in control. I think it is more due to impatience and perhaps not really understanding the dynamic.

 

I'm perfectly content at sitting back and watching patrols figure it out -- but this is a troop culture where boys have become passive.

 

Guy

[Stosh]

One of the most difficult things for the SM (any any other adult leader) is to allow the boys the opportunity to fail. In our culture, we all basically want our boys to succeed, it looks good for them and even better for the adults if this is the case. However, the boys will never get an opportunity to have ownership of the success if all they ever do is ride along on the leadership of adults. Boys know that when they succeed because some adult is running the show it doesn't carry the same weight as if they gained the success on their own.

 

I have watched boys quit scouting because they were running the show and yet weren't having any "fun" in the process. What they haven't yet figured out is that running the show is the fun. If they are bored, frustrated or whatever, it is because they are still in the learning curve. Once they clear a first small hurdle on their own, then things will begin to turn around for them. Until that happens, expect a lot of gut checks on the part of the adults. "Are you just going to stand by and let the boys miss an event they failed to plan for????" Yep, but it isn't easy to tell a parent that. Then point out the fact that out of the two troops in town, one adult-led and the other boy-led and with the Blue Golds completed the adult-led program picked up 17 new boys and the boy-led program only 7. Add to that the 8 boys who chose not to continue on in scouting, too. It's tough to believe in a boy-led program when it seems like the whole deck is stacked against you and you have chosen not to step in and take over and make everything look good. I second guess myself every time I put on my SM shirt and step back into the struggle.

 

Stosh

[Kudu]

GKlose writes:

 

"So, with this opportunity you have -- is this as an new adult leader in that troop, or is it as a UC or something like that?"

 

I am an Assistant Scoutmaster now, and a training Commissioner.

 

GKlose writes:

 

"How will you, or do you, help steer the ingrained culture in the right direction?"

 

I don't have any practical advice for you. I have been with my new Troop for a calendar year but beyond positive feedback when appropriate (they do cook by Patrols, for instance), I just waited for an opportunity to bring up the topic. Finally, before the thorns and roses session at the campout this weekend one of the visiting "old-school" dads asked me why the Scouts all camp together rather than in separate Patrol areas.

 

Patrol meals are at the heart of the Patrol Method. You do not find the Patrol Method at most summer camps because of dining halls. Likewise in our case the physical weight of our Patrol boxes dictates that they be set up a few feet from the Troop trailer, so the Scouts tend to group their tents around the Troop trailer.

 

Responding to the dad's earlier question, I suggested to the group that because we now have more Patrols than Patrol boxes, perhaps we should buy a few $5 plastic tote bins and a good table, and allow an "Honor Patrol" (a Patrol that proves to be the most mature), to camp a little further from the rest of the Troop, at least in good weather.

 

I can tell you how a Scoutmaster can make a game out getting to the Patrol Method no matter from where he is starting, but the Scoutmaster has to consider it a priority. As a ASM my job is to do what the SM wants done in the way he wants me to do it.

 

He put me in charge of the first year program which I enjoy a lot, and now I'm also heading up the Troop's first backpacking trip since most of the current boys have been Scouts. As point man on the backpacking trip I might be able to facilitate some of those "small, subtle steps in moving the troop in the right direction" by arranging the Patrols around my backpacking stoves rather than a central cooking area.

 

GKlose writes:

 

"But, Kudu, I think you hit the key phrase: "if the adults can stand it"...what if the adults don't know any better, or in fact are rather unwitting in interfering in the process."

 

How are they supposed to learn? This Troop takes training seriously, they require it of all Scouters, and even the key Committee Members take the Scoutmaster training in addition to Committee training. However, when the last three of our Scouters attended Scoutmaster/ASM-specific training, I Staffed the Patrol Method session and unfortunately I always do Council-level training strictly by the book. I do regret that now.

 

As you may know, Patrols and Patrol Leaders have been cut from the Patrol Method session. That is why many adults are unwitting about what the Patrol Method is and how it is supposed to work on a practical level even though they HAVE been to training.

 

Kudu

 

 

[shortridge]

All our boys are addressed by Mr. _________ as a sign of respect to them and their position in the troop. When I first started with this troop it was standard operating procedure to address the SM by his first name which the boys did. I always addressed them by title and last name and without any big deal the boys have followed suit. If respect is given, respect is returned.

 

I used this technique when I worked at summmer camp. There seemed to be a slight but perceptible change in attitudes, for the better.

[Knot Head]

When we (my son & I) joined a troop all menu planning & cooking was done at the troop level. It took a couple of months of suggesting it at the committee meetings (and readings from BSA literature) but we eventually had a campout where each patrol cooked by patrol. The "old guys" (star & up) cooked together as an ad hoc patrol, so we had 4 patrols. three "real" one "ad hoc". Now it is a given that each patrol plans their own menu, cooks and camps together. Worst skit at the Saturday night campout campfire has to do some chore like take down the tents of the best skit patrol.

 

On campouts we decided to have a lead patrol. The lead patrol is responsible for finding a location, reservation, collecting the money, making sure we have enough drivers, etc. using a checklist we prepared over time.

 

Elections, calendar planning and troop activity at meetings has always been up to the boys so that was not a big struggle, but we have been able to cede a little more control to the boys.

 

Annually at the planning meeting the boys discuss and vote to select what camping themes they want that year (canoeing, backpacking, scout Olympics, rock climbing, fishing, etc.) and then we select an adult sponsor. The activity chairman supervises the trip chairman who is an adult from the lead patrol. The trip chair works with the patrol leader of the "lead" patrol to select a weekend, identify potential campout locations and work the campout organization checklist. We try as much as we can to get the patrols to ride together in cars.

 

So I'd say take the great advice already received and try to implement. You have to make a conscious effort to set things up so patrols meet weekly, menu plan, cook, camp, meet & ride together. Dont throw them to the wolves. Start small by for example offering three menu items to choose from in the planning session. Over time as they gain experience you can take off the training wheels and let them plan the menu on their own. You also have to make an effort to get the boys to do things you could do on your own alot faster... like searching the internet for canoeing locations, calling for prices (you almost have to give them a script or be on the other line to prod them to ask the right questions), making reservations, etc.

 

I always try to think of myself as a coach. I cant play but I can coach and put them in a position to be successful based on their age, talent level & experience. If we are getting beat I can call timeout, bring them over, regroup and give specific instructions. If they are doing great I can let them call their own plays.