Troop & Patrol Hikes as Leadership Training

[Kudu]

Buffalo Skipper writes:

 

"OK. I hear yall going back and forth about this. Kudu, I know what you have said here, but lets say you have a successful troop (by modern BSA expectations); how do you make the transition?"

 

As you note, my Top Dog story is about rescuing a "Troop in Trouble" where the danger of changing the "Troop Culture" of a successful Troop is not an issue.

 

Buffalo Skipper writes:

 

"My point is, how do you get the scouts who have worked with this program for one to five years make this adjustment and change their way of thinking?"

 

First off, I would pitch any changes as NEW ADVENTURES, rather than changing their way of thinking.

 

That is the difference between Bill Hillcourt's Patrol Leader Training and all of the manager theory that replaced it. Hillcourt's "Intensive Training in the Green Bar Patrol" course and his companion pre-1972 Handbook for Scoutmasters and pre-1972 Handbook for Patrol Leaders focus like a laser beam on what a Patrol DOES: How with the proper training a Patrol Leader can take his Patrol on cool adventures without depending on adult supervision.

 

Manger fluff is all about "team-building exercises" based on how a "leader" THINKS about "being a leader."

 

So focus instead on SMALL OUTDOOR ADVENTURES and everything else will follow: Form Follows Function!

 

"Intensive Training in the Green Bar Patrol" teaches Patrol Leaders 1) how to hold PATROL MEETINGS, and then how to use Patrol Meetings to 2) plan PATROL HIKES and 3) PATROL OVERNIGHTERS.

 

As I have noted in many other threads, the best compromise between Bill Hillcourt's Traditional BSA "Patrol Method" and the new helicopter "21st Century Scouting" is to use Baden-Powell's "100 yard rule" for Troop campouts. Simply use monthly outings to allow your Patrols to hold "Patrol Overnights" away from the adults and the other Patrols at a distance determined by each Patrol's actual competency. This is all about the sense of ADVENTURE that comes from independence.

 

Often overlooked these days is that both Scoutcraft and Leadership Training in Baden-Powell's and Bill Hillcourt's Traditional Scouting is based on Troop and Patrol Hikes (a Patrol Overnight is merely an extended Patrol Hike).

 

A Troop or Patrol Hike should be measured by its ENTERTAINMENT VALUE, not by its distance.

 

Hillcourt devotes seventy (70) pages of his Handbook for Scoutmasters to hikes. He writes that the success of ALL Scouting activities depends on:

 

ACTION

 

VARIETY

 

PUPPOSE

 

By "ACTION" he means ACTION rather than understanding. Scouting is a Game, NOT a Purpose.

 

Under "VARIETY" he writes: "It is too late to sit up and take stock when the boys begin to stay away in droves and present for their reason that 'we never do anything but walk out, light a fire, cook supper and walk home again.' Troop hikes must be made so interesting and varied that no one will willingly miss them."

 

I wonder how many Troops in entire the United States EVER hike out on a Saturday to light a fire and cook supper, let alone do it enough to dull its novelty

 

The "PURPOSE" of a Troop or Patrol Hike is ADVENTURE. He offers 30 Troop Hike theme suggestions, which I will include in a later post.

 

One of these 30 is Treasure Hunt wide games:

 

http://inquiry.net/outdoor/games/wide/index.htm

 

For a simple nuts and bolts on how to teach Patrol Leaders how to plan a Troop or Patrol Hike, see:

 

http://inquiry.net/patrol/green_bar/3rd.htm

 

The Scoutmaster must then take the Patrol Leaders on the actual Green Bar Patrol Hike that they just planned. That's right, a stupid "blindfold exercise" will not do!

 

http://inquiry.net/patrol/green_bar/3z_hike.htm

 

Training should be outdoor adventure, NOT understanding!

 

Kudu

 

 

 

[Buffalo Skipper]

Kudu,

Thanks. I'm sorry I missed this in my haste last night. I can direct much more of my discussion and questions here. Give me a bit to digest what you posted; I am confident I will have questions as it all sinks in....

[Buffalo Skipper]

I've got some of my ducks in a row, and I now have at least enough of a footing to ask a question or two.

 

I am looking at the first meeting of the "training patrol." First, it is this "patrol" which chooses a name, and begins the training as a unit, right? And is this the "same" as the PLC, replacing it for the 6 months of the training period?

[Kudu]

Yes, the Patrol has the same members as the PLC plus the Scoutmaster, who serves as Patrol Leader. Usually the Green Bar Patrol meets just after the PLC concludes its business.

 

The basic idea of the first meeting is to teach the Patrol Leaders how to run a Patrol Meeting without adults around.

 

A small Troop usually adds Assistant Patrol Leaders to the Patrol so that you have a good size Patrol. You can also add any other Troop officers who would benefit from knowing how a Patrol works, but keep in mind that this is "Patrol Leader Training" NOT "Junior Leader Training."

 

Kudu

 

 

 

[Buffalo Skipper]

 

...keep in mind that this is "Patrol Leader Training" NOT "Junior Leader Training."

I can say that I would not confuse the two. But since you did bring it up this way, do you still use JLT to supplement the Green Bar training? (Stosh, I know your answer to this, but I really wanted to hearKudu's view on it)

Most everyone here who has seen the TLT program feels it is kind of light. In spite of this, our troopput together a good program for it last March after Webelos Crossover. We did the 3 sessions in one day with leadership games between the sessions as well as lunch and working on Patrol flags (which won awards at the last council camporee). One aspect we focused on was delivering a program for the new scouts, whose new job position was"patrol member,"for which they did not know what was expected of them.Ideally this can be delivered at a patrol meeting (training) by the PL, but we have not gotten that far in our program yet.

[Mafaking]

 

There are two things to the Green Bar system that are worth commenting on.

 

First Green Bar nails it in that you can't really teach management theory to a 13 years old. Concepts of Maslow's Hierarchy of needs, Servant Leadership and even EDGE are all vague notions meant to explain human behavior within a group. These programs have a clinical design concept of a static group with rational individuals. The theory is that the leader can just tap into the program's formalistic approach to management and achieve great results.

 

PL: "scoutmaster they won't clean-up the cooking pots".

SM: "Have you appealed to their self actualization's needs? Try that, it should help."

PL: "huh?"

 

So Green Bar recognized that (even before Power Point) that to develop leadership in a class room environment is fool hardy. The scout must learn leadership through his own practice and through the advice and council of the adult leadership.

 

On the other hand. Green Bar's approach to run the PLC as a patrol lead by the scoutmaster is a about where most troops end up. They wind up with the worlds oldest patrol leader teaching leadership by doing things. The scouts learn leadership in the way that Green Bar intended by showing the scouts while out on activities. But its the next step that is missing. Its where the scouts gets an opportunity to really lead his patrol that seems to have fallen to the way side. The scouts are all too eager to absorb and observe the leadership of the adult but never feel complete of confident enough in their training to take charge.

 

Finally, Green Bar expectations were that the SM would spend lots of time with his PLC. He casually mentions that in one of his Chats "while at the movies with your SPL discuss..". Great! when was the last time just you and your SPL went to the movies?

 

I am not slamming the Green Bar patrol. But it is in itself another management concept. Results are only realized when the exact formalistic approach is used. Lots of time spent withe PLC members, separate campouts and so forth. Fail that and the model won't produce.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Stosh]

As a psych major in college, I did all the Maslow stuff along with other behavior modification styles etc. Theory is great for college aged people, but one of the most important lessons that must be taught is how does that information get translated down to an 11 year-old's level.

 

PL: "The boys won't clean up the meal mess."

SPL: "Now's the time to demonstrate leadership, (i.e. Servant Leadership). Grab the assistant cook and the KP guys and LEAD them by rolling up your sleeves and give example (lead by example) by working with them until they figure out the process."

PL: "What if they still won't do it?"

SPL: "Cheerfully jump in and start. The good leaders will follow. The best leaders are the best followers."

 

I think once it's explained in clear wording, it should translate easily into the patrol.

 

One can't lead by pushing. They need to get out in front and... well.... lead. The boys will respect this approach better than the bossy leaders. Never expect the boys to do that which you wouldn't do yourself.

 

When I teach the NSP boys, and I see this cleanup mess not getting done, I jump in and take dibbs on the Dutch Oven. For me it's a horrible looking cleanup, but after demonstrating how easily it's done, the boys usually jump in and do that first. Ever have your boys fighting over who's going to clean what? I have. It ain't pretty, but it sure is fun. Scouting is a game. :^)

 

I find that doing these kinds of thingys is a great time to visit with the boys and do SM conferences on how they're getting along in scouting. I remember some of my best "visits" with my Mom were when we did the supper dishes. It's an attitude, not a chore.

 

Stosh

[Kudu]

Buffalo Skipper writes:

 

"do you still use JLT to supplement the Green Bar training?"

 

Yeah, but I can't help feeling that I am teaching the mindset needed to someday buy hundreds of billions of dollars worth of sub-par loans and $40,000 executive wastebaskets with tax-payer bail-out money

 

That being said, some of the smarter Scouts do enjoy that kind of thing. One of my former Patrol Leaders (who when he was 12 took his Patrol on adult-free campouts by using railroad right-of-ways) is now working on his PhD in economics.

 

Besides it gives me an excuse to haul out my DVD copy of "Master and Commander" and discuss Lucky Jack Aubrey's leadership formula ("strength, respect, and discipline") as used by his 13-year-old midshipmen ("squeakers") to lead patrols of grown men in the heat of battle! See my JLT notes:

 

http://inquiry.net/patrol/training/movies.htm

 

("Master and Commander" DVDs are available from that URL for as little as 32 cents).

 

Mafaking writes:

 

"But its the next step that is missing. Its where the scouts gets an opportunity to really lead his patrol that seems to have fallen to the way side."

 

You mean these opportunities are missing in most "21st century Scouting"? Many people like to blame the changing culture, as in Louv's Last Child in the Woods. A lot depends on expectations, doesn't it? I do not expect my Patrol Leaders to organize their own adult-free campouts, although some do. As noted above, a good compromise is to use Baden-Powell's "100 yard rule" for Troop campouts and simply allow your Patrols to hold "Patrol Overnights" away from the adults and the other Patrols at a distance determined by each Patrol's actual competency.

 

Mafaking writes:

 

"I am not slamming the Green Bar patrol. But it is in itself another management concept. Results are only realized when the exact formalistic approach is used. Lots of time spent withe PLC members, separate campouts and so forth. Fail that and the model won't produce."

 

But a lot is riding on this approach, isn't it? The "management concept" of "Intensive Training in the Green Bar Patrol" is managed risk, not unlike BSA Lifeguard training.

 

Lots of time = an extra hour after PLC meetings every month for six months (6 hours), plus a Saturday for the Patrol Hike (10 hours), and one overnight: We held our Patrol overnights Saturday morning through Sunday morning.

 

The modern "disposable Patrol Leader" method holds elections and weekend training every six months, so if you only run the Green Bar Patrol once a year the total training hours are less per year; and a LOT less if you hang onto your best Patrol Leaders for two or three years, and/or if Assistant Patrol Leaders attend with the Patrol Leaders and take over.

 

The Scoutmaster-led Green Bar Patrol is a training Patrol, it is disbanded after your Patrol Leaders are trained.

 

One mistake I made with the online version of "Intensive Training in the Green Bar Patrol" was to update the reading assignments to reference the current publications. The current Patrol Leader and Scoutmaster handbooks are significantly inferior to the older references in both quantity and quality.

 

For instance the older publications specify that the GOAL of training is to get the Patrol Leaders out hiking and camping (managed risk).

 

The Handbook for Patrol Leaders has an entire chapter on how to take your Patrol on a Patrol Hike without adults:

 

CHAPTER VII

 

PATROL HIKES

 

At one of the very first Patrol meetings you have with your Scouts, one of them will ask: "When do we go on a hike" and in a moment the rest will join him in a multi-voiced chorus.

 

Boys, and especially Scouts, want to go hiking. The out-of-doors fascinates them. The woods, the rivers, the "wide open spaces" call them. And they obey.

 

As soon as you are able you will want to take your boys on Patrol Hikes. You want your Patrol to be a real one, and only a hiking Patrol is a real Patrol....

 

DEGREE OF RESPONSIBILITY

 

The most conspicuous difference between the two [Patrol Meetings and Patrol Hikes] is the different degree of responsibility that goes with each.

 

There are usually not very many dangers in running an indoor meeting. It is when you start to take the group out in the open that the danger moment may creep in. There is traffic to be encountered, cliffs and rivers and swamps to be avoided; there is the danger than an innocent camp fire will blow up into a forest fire if care is not taken. And a lot of other unforeseen things that might happen which would put you in a severe test [emphasis added].

 

Likewise the Handbook for Patrol Leaders had another entire chapter about how to take your Patrol camping without adults:

 

CHAPTER VIII

 

PATROL CAMPING

 

The outdoor part of Scouting fascinates the boys. The hikes that bring them out into nature have their absolute approval, but, after all, the experience which they are most looking forward to from the day you start the Patrol is --Camp.

 

Camp is a word filled with adventure to every real boy. It stands for freedom, fun and adventure. Unlucky is the Scout who hasn't had his taste of camp life.

 

One of your greatest services as a Patrol Leader is to try to make your Patrol into a Camping Patrol trained in the ways of the experienced campers. This takes time. It takes also patience and perseverance. But it can be done, and you are will under way toward doing it, the day you have made your boys into real hikers as described in the previous chapter.

 

The official BSA policy that "Real Patrols" require real adult-free hikes and campouts was made crystal clear to adult leaders. For instance, on page 118-119 of the Handbook for Scoutmasters (fourth edition):

 

Patrols are ready to go hiking and camping on their own just as soon as the Patrol Leader has been trained, and the Scouts have learned to take care of themselves....It should be your goal to get your Patrol Leaders qualified for hike and camp leadership at an early stage.

 

Kudu