February = New Scout Patrol Discussion

[BrentAllen]

Buffalo,

This may not be a direct answer to your question, but still might help in the long run.

 

When Patrol Leaders are wisely chosen they seldom represent a problem to the Scoutmaster. Yet, occasions may occur when a Patrol Leader goes "rampant," loses his sense of proportions and seems to disregard his responsibilities entirely. This may be the case with the new Patrol Leader in whom consciousness of his official importance is undeveloped.

 

All such instances should be handled in private conversation between the Scoutmaster and the boy leader, with the "treatment" taking the form of kindly, but none the less positive advice. The boy should be made to realize that as Patrol Leader he must be a model for the other members of his Patrol, and that his failure to live up to the Scout ideals is a more serious offence than the failure of a Scout in the ranks.

 

Occasionally a Patrol Leader becomes indifferent to the progress of his Patrol and fails to demonstrate sufficient interest in the welfare of his boys. Such cases may be solved--(1) by arousing the Patrol Leader's ambition through stimulating inter-Patrol games and contests, (2) by making him and his Patrol temporary onlookers instead of participants in some of the more interesting activities of the Troop, (3) or (and this should be the last resort) by removing the Patrol Leader from his office.

 

In the handling of all such problems it is imperative that discretion be excercised constantly so that the Patrol Leader will have no opportunity to feel that he is being unfairly discriminated against or that any animosity exists.

Green Bar Bill

[Stosh]

This is the problem that arises when POR terms are enforced. On the other hand have the boys considered holding office for as long as they do the work? If a poor choice is made, why wait 6 months to correct it? A lot of grief can be had in that length of time. Just recently a PL announced he will not be around on scout night because he has gotten involved in karate. Within 2 weeks a new PL was put into place by the members of that patrol. No hassle, just made the change and life goes on.

 

Stosh

[Buffalo Skipper]

Stosh,

The 6 months to which I was referring was not POR related, but rather the idea of taking that amount of time to "train" the new scouts before assigning them to a permanent patrol. Several posts on this and related threads have talked about this in different ways.

 

Another point I am trying to make, which has received little response is patrol unity. With the NSP (and Venture Patrol) it seems like patrols are constantly being picked apart and put back together to make the boys fit into this "system." If the boys start out together (NSP) and stay together, then when they become 14 (presumably at roughly the same time), their patrol can become a venture patrol, and they maintain thier unity. Otherwise, with a mixed group, the older scouts are constantly being pulled out and reassigned. Somewhow this just doesn't seem right.(This message has been edited by Buffalo Skipper)

[Eagledad]

>>If the boys start out together (NSP) and stay together, then when they become 14 (presumably at roughly the same time), their patrol can become a venture patrol, and they maintain thier unity.

[Stosh]

Sorry Buffalo, I was responding to the gentleman who had a problem patrol of older boys who had leadership that didn't want to work at it.

 

The concept my boys have adopted is that the patrols right from the git-go are permanent. There is none of this trial NSP patrols only for the first year and then an evening of musical chairs.

 

My boys have adopted two methods of patrol maintenance. 1) NSP where all the members are Webelos cross-overs with their own leadership under the guidance of a patrol selected TG to assist them the first year. 2) Patrols of older boys recruit out of the pool of Webelos boys take in and nurture them their first year. The Webelos boys have the option of which way they wish to go. Generally older boy patrols that have lost a few members to aging out, disinterest or moving on to TOC. These patrols have the option of recruiting or closing down and joining up with other patrols.

 

There's also another option which would be a NSP that request an older boy to come in and be their PL. This would then not require the need of a TG. I have suggested to the boys that in the interest of developing leadership in the new boys that this option not be promoted very strongly. However, if it is chosen, the PL has the option to working the boys through the APL position to get them oriented to leadership in a safe environment. Generally speaking that PL would hang with the patrol for the first year and then consider some other options to let that patrol develop a continuity on it's own. I like the "outsider" TG because he does not take a vested interest in the patrol's leadership but is more responsible for developing it from within the patrol's membership itself. The TG can then return to his own patrol after the new patrol gets on it's feet.

 

I think the Webelos moving into an older boy patrol may progress through rank faster, but acquire less leadership opportunities along the way. The opposite is generally true for the other option. They by nature of the beast have to get leadership going and do so at the price of leadership skill development.

 

This is basically the same principle we face occasionally with the TOC members. When they wish to go back into a patrol with their friends, if their spot is filled with new boys, it makes it difficult. Because the number of patrol members allowed is between 6-8, sometimes the patrols hold open a spot for a returning member who may have been asked to step out to be TG or DC or some other TOC position for a short term assignment.

 

Of course for the really up and coming scout if they want to be a PL and can't get "elected" in his patrol, he can branch out and recruit a patrol from out of the Webelos boys and offer his expertise as their PL and/or TG. Because our TOC is not appointed positions, their numbers fluxuate as the situation dictates with the needs of the patrols. If we have no new Webelos coming in, there's no need to maintain the TG position and that boy is eligible to move back into his old patrol, or any patrol he wishes that has openings for that matter. This process could happen 2 months into the NSP's organization or he could stay a full year if that's what the NSP needs to get going. Every group of boys is different.

 

Stosh

[Buffalo Skipper]

Eagledad,

I was refering to the idea of Venture Patrols. If you have mixed age groups in patrols, and you have VPs, then you have to "pluck" the 14 year olds out of the existing patrols for them to participate in VPs. On the other hand, if you form NSPs and keep them together, then when all the patrol members turn 14 (which is presumably within about a year) then the patrol simply becomes a VP. My point in that was that it may be better to keep a NSP together, rather than divide them up after 6 months or a year.

 

Stosh,

Thanks, that is was the key for which I was looking.

 

This was brought up at PLC last night, and they decided to "merge" our two "half-patrols" into one (these mostly consist of the last 2 webelos recruited classes--now 6th and 7th grades--so the age is close with all of them). Likewise, they want to see the crossovers form a NSP, with a good troop guide to mentor them.

 

I intend to begin a new round of training (green bar patrol) once the boys cross over and organize into their patrol. We will see how it works out.

 

[Buffalo Skipper]

Stosh,

A couple more questions for you. Just for a frame of reference, how large is your troop and what is its composition (patrols, ages, ranks, etc). With this in mind, how often do you do training, and in what setting do you do the training? Also how long do PLs serve? Assuming long "terms" how often do you have one step down, and how does this affect your "training schedule"?

[Stosh]

"A couple more questions for you. Just for a frame of reference, how large is your troop "

 

I started with 5 boys (Life, FC now Star, 3 Scouts all 14+ years of age), (8/2007) added an older boy transfer (9/2007 Life Scout 14) took on 20 new Webelos (2/2008). One older scout transfered in from the other troop in the neighborhood (10/2007 FC now Star 14). I now have 18 active boys. We are moving into Blue Gold season and have a potential of 39 new Webelos boys crossing over from 3 packs in the neighborhood.

 

"and what is its composition (patrols, ages, ranks, etc). "

 

We had 3 patrols and one TG who did the SPL thing as needed. TG because the make up of the troop was mostly Webelos crossover boys. The boys reorganized 6 months ago (8/2008) and one PL stepped up to SPL to work with PL's, the TG became ASPL and has 3 boys in the TOC, QM, OA Rep and a DC. The one patrol moved up a member into PL. Another patrol had a PL step down and was replaced by another PL. Third patrol lost a lot of members (older boy problem mentioned in earlier posts) but has retained their PL. Another boy stepped out of a patrol and has been working independently as a PL to recruit out of the Webelos boys to form his own patrol. I'm thinking that even after the numbers of legacy patrols fill up there might still be one or two NSP's needed depending on the number of crossovers.

 

"With this in mind, how often do you do training,"

 

Along with the T-2-1 requirement training, the boys had an opportunity to earn 2 MB's at summer camp and are working on a third at the present time (Pioneering). They all had the opportunity to have Green Bar Patrol training of which 5 completed. The DC completed the full DC training program as well as the on-line fast start. I am currently teaching NLT to the boys as they prepare for the influx of new Webelos boys in a couple of weeks.

 

"and in what setting do you do the training?"

 

Troop meetings are used for teaching. (One hour of the 1.5 hour timeslot)

 

" Also how long do PLs serve?"

 

As long as they wish to do the work and the boys want them to lead.

 

" Assuming long "terms" how often do you have one step down, and how does this affect your "training schedule"? "

 

One boy stepped down because of a busy schedule (Star Scout), another from his patrol took over, just did his BOR for First Class last night. He was a Webelos crossover from last year.

 

Another FC (Webelos crossover from last year) went independent and is trying to form a NSP from this year's Webelos boys.

 

One boy stepped out of his patrol to become SPL. I asked him if he wished to do this because he was my best PL from last year (Life scout, project completed, working on last couple of MB's for Eagle.) He chose to accept the position.

 

The TG -> ASPL (Life scout just starting project, finished up a MB last night, needs a couple more partials completed.) He is directly responsible for training the individuals in the TOC, he gives the QM training, OA Rep training, etc. I did the DC training this year because it needed to be done quickly, but the ASPL will be expected to do it in the future. He could delegate it to the trained DC to do as well if he chooses. His choice. He is also responsible for any T-2-1 training his TOC members might need. They are on the TOC because of what they want to DO and has nothing to do with rank or age.

 

QM stepped out of his patrol to function in that role (Tenderfoot)

 

OA Rep stepped out of his patrol (Star scout transfer from other troop in town)

 

DC - stayed in his patrol temporarily until his patrol can recover with new Webelos scouts. Because his duties are not troop related, he has chosen to stay with his patrol which does not create any conflict of interest in the operation of the troop.

 

These officer positions are moved around depending on the needs of the patrols. If a PL is busy with sports for a while, he steps down and another picks up the functionality. My SPL had a season of sports and the ASPL did double duty (SPL/ASPL of the TOC) while he was absent. He was able to come to the first half of the meeting but had to leave and the ASPL helped the patrols wrap up the meetings.

 

All in all it has been a struggling year with the burst of new Webelos quadrupling the size of the troop, and there's a possibility of tripling it's size once more. It has been a real strain on my boys, but they have struggled along pretty well. The reputation of the troops efforts have become known in the community and when one of the Webelos DL's sent out this year's invitation to the Blue Gold it was sent to the SPL, not me. Yea, this stuff works!

 

We are still seriously deep into the learning curve, but as soon as the patrols shake out next month, they will have the opportunity to start their Scout advancement and get into Tenderfoot. At that point (2-3 weeks) we will redo the Green Bar Patrol training once again. It will be heavily taught by the 5 graduates of last year's training (none of which were older boys!).

 

Age doesn't seem to play out as a factor in much of what we do. I have a 17 year old that by nature of his age is looked to for guidance, but I have some highly motivated new boys that have gotten FC and felt confident enough to strike out on their own to recruit a new patrol of their own. The boys all know that any opportunity they have is what they make it to be. I have 12 year old boys that are functioning at a level that was only attained by age 14-15 in my former troop. I still get a lot of deer-in-the-headlight looks, but when they don't get a rise out of me, they settle down and figure things out pretty well. I have not only been pleased with what these boys have done, but quite impressed as well. I basically didn't think it would work as well as it did.

 

This next year is going to be a blast! 25-35 new boys? What an opportunity for my last year's Webelos to show their leadership! The only wrench in the mix is if we have 1-2 new NSP's they have the option to select their TG's from the existing membership so the structure won't be stettled for some time in the near future. By mid-March the boys should know what the organization is going to be for the forseeable future.

 

Stosh