February = New Scout Patrol Discussion

[Mafaking]

Well it's that time of year again to discuss and review the application of the New Scout patrol method. Blue and Golds are just around the corner and with them are the Arrow of Light and Cross Over Ceremonies.

 

Let's review: "A new-Scout patrol is for 11-year-old Scouts who have recently joined the troop. They function together as a patrol during their first year in the troop, working toward the goal of completing the requirements for First Class. ....During troop meetings, new Scouts have separate instruction sessions and patrol meetings."

 

Is the material suggesting the New Scout Patrol is separate but equal?

 

Last year we brought in the new scouts put them in a new scout patrol and then after summer camp divided them up among the three mixed aged patrols. The results were a tick above "not bad".

 

My questions are:

 

I plan to do the same thing again this year bring in new scout and then in August split them up. Is this the best way?

 

Last year the new scout patrol adopted a critter, a patrol name and even made a call only to see their efforts for nought as they were dived among the existing patrols. If I continue with this practice of splitting do I omit the critter adoption phase?

 

Does anyone else think the leader's material on this subject is insufficiently developed?

 

 

 

 

 

(This message has been edited by Mafaking)

[Buffalo Skipper]

Makafing,

My understanding was that these scouts formed a new scout patrol, this was their patrol. After a year, they would no longer be called a new scout patrol, but would be a patrol, like any other in the troop.

 

Naturally, this requires a particular amount of recruited scouts (sometimes difficult to get, and impossible to plan). We will have about 8 scouts crossing over this year, and will have a NSP for the first time. It is our intention to keep them as a viable patrol until it dies (ideally, for 6-7 years). This also allows the patrol to become a Venture Patrol all at once without changing the patrol dynamic. In theory, scouts can be in one patrol their entire scouting experience.

 

What is your reasoning for breaking up the NSP after 6 months? Is there some dynamic which is not working?(This message has been edited by Buffalo Skipper)

[SMT224]

We immediately integrate the Crossover Scouts into existing Patrols. We stand them up in front of the Troop and pull their names from an old Troop hat - the sorting hat - and off they go with cheers from all in the hat chosen Patrol. This was a big deal during the "Harry Potter" period, but guys still know it and like it. Seems to work fine as the new Scouts are instantly part of an existing group of guys and can learn from the older Scouts for camping, cooking, and advancement. We have discussed this many times in Green Bar (every year in fact) and the Scouts like it 'cause it brings the new guys straight away into the Troop rather than leaving them out as a Patrol of Cubs.

[Eagledad]

It is the next best thing to just putting them in regular patrols as soon as they join like SMT224 does.

 

The only reason I used NSPs was when we had a lot more new scouts then the regular patrols could handle. I found that more than two new scouts per patrol messed up the patrol dynamics unless there was a lot of older scouts in the patrol. We tried a lot variations with NSPs and merging them into other patrols after summer camp worked best. If you wait longer, their growth slows down a lot because they don't have good role models in the patrol for them to learn from.

 

Barry

[Stosh]

Being a boy-led program, they have decided that each patrol is to recruit out of the Webelos beginning a few months prior to cross-over. Each patrol can have as many as 8 boys and as few as 6. If there are more boys than needed in the older boy patrols, or the older boys have 6 boys and don't want any more they can stay that way. All the "left over" boys form as many patrols as they wish using the 6-8 numbers. When all is said and done, we have had both mixed and NSP patrols at the same time. Each patrol is responsible for the T-2-1 training of the new boys. The NSP is allowed to pick their own TG if they wish to have one. Adults are not part of this process.

 

I find the NSP boys progress in requirement learning faster than the mixed patrols because they are all focused on the same interests.

 

There is nothing to say the boys can't move to different patrols as they desire, nor is there anything stopping them from being a NSP and staying together as long as they wish as long as they maintain at least 6 members.

 

Stosh

[Buffalo Skipper]

Hang on guys and gals, because here I go again, overthinking my troop. We have 2 small patrols composed of 6th and 7th graders. One patrol does ok, but the other really struggles. Left to their own devices, they would do nothing responsible, only play. Combined these patrols have 7 good members (2 are formally inactive).

 

We are expecting about 8 new scouts from crossover this year. I am reluctant to divide and place these new scouts into the patrol of "misfits," as it would be putting the inexperienced with the incompetent. My thought was to have combine the two existing patrols (making one good sized working gang) and forming a NSP with the crossovers.

 

The situation was discussed by the PLC back in November, and they actually suggested this course of action independent of a lack of suggestions on my part. I am inclined to support the PLC on this, yet I have reservations about mucking with the existing patrols. Several of my SM Minutes have been on patrol unity and cohesion.

 

Have I overlooked any options or particulars?

[SMT224]

Per information gleaned from The Scoutmaster's Other Handbook by Mark A. Ray (well worth reading/buying Amazon.com!), our younger boy Patrols (where the crossover Scouts go) usually exceed the classic 8 Scouts per Patrol, and often have up to 12 Scouts. Heresy? Perhaps, but it works great as there are always enough Scouts in the Patrols to do things at Troop meetings and on camping trips. From these Patrols the Scouts earn their way to other Patrols by advancing in rank or are aged out of the younger boy Patrols.

[Eagledad]

>>I find the NSP boys progress in requirement learning faster than the mixed patrols because they are all focused on the same interests.

[Stosh]

If there are 12 boys crossing over, instead of having one mega-NSP, why not have two managable patrols? No new scout can handle being PL of 11 other boys. That's a formula for failure for this poor boy.

 

One experienced TG could work with both PL's and let the PL's run their patrols of 5 other boys. This also doubles the opportunity for leadership development with two PL's instead of one. Older boy mentoring will happen with the TG and Instructor involved with the NSP's. The dynamics change when an older "outsider" comes in and does the instruction and assistance. This also develops the troop officer corps to be supportive of the patrols by taking a hands-on approach with specific POR's. Nothing worse than having older-boy patrol #1 doing the instruction for NSP #2 where only 1 of the 8 boys is really all that interested in working with the NSP in the first place. Why not just take that one boy that IS interested and make him TG/Instructor and quit contriving scenerios that the boys are totally not interested in. They want to hang with their buddies, not babysit the NSP. Group to group dynamics are different than individual to group dynamics.

 

Stosh

[Eagledad]

>>Why not just take that one boy that IS interested and make him TG/Instructor and quit contriving scenerios that the boys are totally not interested in.

[Kudu]

If your goal is to someday use what the BSA once termed "Real Patrols" then your primary concern should be to keep best friends together, rather than arbitrarily pulling their names out of a sorting hat. This is especially true with many Latin brothers and cousins, who tend to get separated in white Troops with "no brothers in the same Patrol" rules.

 

Remember that the Hogwart's Sorting Hat was NOT random, its whole purpose was to place everyone in the proper school after CAREFUL CONSIDERATION of each new student's nature, thoughts, and desires. Keeping friends together is a fundamental principle of Traditional Scouting.

 

The Patrols of most Troops camp close together so that friends from other Patrols can all hang out together, and even bunk together. If you split friends up, then they will rightfully resist any effort to move the Patrols apart when you start to move them in the direction of Real Patrols.

 

Buffalo Skipper writes:

 

"Several of my SM Minutes have been on patrol unity and cohesion."

 

This is where the 1,166 "new" Scouting ideas in Bill Hillcourt's third edition Handbook for Scoutmasters come in handy. Personality should aways trump theory, the trick is to have many legitimate Traditional theories from which to choose. If the personalities of your Scouts do not YET lend themselves to the Patrol unity and cohesion theory, it helps to 1,165 other traditional ideas to choose from

 

If you now have a total of 7 active campers who want to combine their Patrols, then that sounds like a good idea (unless a good Patrol Leader might be replaced with a bad one from the misfits Patrol). But it is all about personality. Sometimes a misfit Patrol can be transformed into a better Patrol than a NSP would be without a talent pool of older Scouts from which to draw.

 

If your goal is Traditional BSA "Real Patrols," the ideal situation is to place the new Scouts in established Patrols. The second best option is to get the Troop's best leader, someone who goes on every campout -- perhaps an Eagle Scout -- and personally ask him to become Patrol Leader of the new Scouts (along with a couple of his best friends for company).

 

One thing that I would avoid in a Troop with one barely working Patrol is wasting the talents of your best Scout on being an SPL. That may take some horse-trading if your Top Dog is determined to be SPL, for instance asking him to also be Patrol Leader of a group of new Scouts for their first year (called "Troop Guide" in the Troop Method).

 

Kudu

[SMT224]

Kudu - You'll be happy to know that the sorting hat is very congniscent of best friends and spends considerable time visiting the AOL Den observing the Weebs and talking to the AOL Den Leader. I agree that friends are best kept together. Brothers, especially twins, may do better in separate Patrols. Depends on the kids.

[CNYScouter]

There is nothing to say the boys can't move to different patrols as they desire, nor is there anything stopping them from being a NSP and staying together as long as they wish as long as they maintain at least 6 members.

 

Stosh - what happens in your Troop when a Patrol doesn't maintain 6 members.

 

[Stosh]

They have a year to recruit more members or merge their members with another patrol. If it's an older patrol, they have the option if they have the skills to take on troop officer roles within the troop and dissolve their patrol.

 

I have two patrols right now of two boys (was 7 to begin with). One patrol was a mix of older boys and new boys. The older boys basically dumped them and left the troop. 2 new boys moved out of the area. The remaining two new boys kept the patrol together since last summer and have recruited one new member making their number 3. They have been on the phone for the past 3 months actively recruiting out of the Webelos boys of the three feeder packs making sure at least 3-5 boys cross over into their patrol.

 

The other patrol of 2 members had a very successful first year and many of the boys chose to accept POR's in the troop officer corps. The TOC is led by the ASPL and operates as a virtual support patrol for the other patrols.

 

These two boys are setting themselves up to be PL and APL of an all-crossover patrol of new boys. They are assuming the new boys will select them PL & APL once they get organized. They too have been recruiting heavily in the three feeder packs.

 

After we find out how many new scouts that join up, I'm assuming there's going to be 3-4 mixed patrols and 2 NSP's. We have a pool of 39 Webelos boys available, but another troop recruiting also. It's an adult-led troop so my boys are competing against some pretty heavy-duty efforts on the part of the other troop's adults.

 

old-new

#1 4 - (4 or 6)

#2 2 - (6 or 4)

#3 3 - (2 or 5)

#4 2 - (6 or 4)

#5 6-8 new

#6 6-8 new

 

Patrols #1 & #3 may merge rather than take on new scouts.

Patrols #2 & #4 are recruiting heavily

Patrols #5 & #6 are filled up with extra crossovers (NSP's)

 

With the crossovers coming in next month, by the end of the month, much of this will be sorted out and decisions will be made by the boys as to how they wish to handle the final mix. I don't foresee any of the patrols being less than 6 members. That'll be about 40 boys, most of whom are 11 or 12 years of age. I have only four boys older than that.

 

Stosh

[Eagledad]

>>That'll be about 40 boys, most of whom are 11 or 12 years of age. I have only four boys older than that.