Webelos Crossover Ceremony

[Stosh]

Yep, we do the same thing and it was the 11-12 year olds that came up with that idea with our boys. Kinda makes ya think that the boys if left alone can do a great job on their own. After all who knows best how it feels for the new boys at that point in their scouting journey!

 

This year the boys took it one step further and "recruited" the cross-over boys into their patrol, that when the time came for the new boys to decide where they wanted to go, they would choose the patrol that did the best job of recruiting/convincing them that their patrol was the best for them. That way every boy walks away thinking he made the best decision for the patrol that wanted him the most. Win-win for all.

 

Stosh

[BrentAllen]

Stosh,

I'm glad that system works for you, but it is not the BSA method now, nor was it in the past. And for the record, Cub Scouts has only been around for 78 years, not 100.

 

3rd Edition SM Handbook (1938)

The Scoutmaster HIMSELF greets the boy and makes him feel at home. pg. 234 (emphasis NOT added)

 

Current Edition, Troop Program Resources, Ceremonies

There are three Webelos-To-Scout Ceremonies described, and all three have the SM receiving and welcoming the new member.

 

The Packs that welcomed you, as SM, to attend are following correct protocol.

 

Bottom line is the boy is joining a Troop and will become a member of a Patrol. I think it is entirely appropriate for the SM to welcome the boy to the Troop. He most likely won't join a Patrol until later. To say that having the SM welcome the Scout indicates that a Troop isn't boy-lead, or isn't using the Patrol method is simply false.

[Stosh]

It doesn't work well for me, but it does work well for the boys. I'll have to have the boys read the 1938 SM handbook.

 

It may not be current protocol, but I wonder if this might be why so many of the current programs that are taught boy-led, patrol-method are really not.

 

I guess if a new boy is entering into a boy-led unit that the first contact is by the one who is really running the show. That's a message my boys want to show the new boys from the git-go.

 

If one goes back far enough one will find that members of patrols were recruited directly by the members of the patrols, and yes this occured prior to the Cub program. With no Cub program, it would have been difficult to come up with a cross-over ceremony.

 

While much of the early literature of BSA are no longer "official" they do give great insight into how the system was organized and how the boys functioned originally. It is definitely not what's happening today.

 

I guess if I was joining and an adult was the first to greet me to welcome me into the troop, that this process directly relates to boy-led, patrol-method wouldn't be obvious to the casual observer, including an 11 year old boy.

 

Ceremonies and pagentry are to convey messages through actions and activities. My boys don't use the resource ceremonies because that's not the message they wish to give.

 

Stosh

[GKlose]

"I guess if a new boy is entering into a boy-led unit that the first contact is by the one who is really running the show. That's a message my boys want to show the new boys from the git-go."

 

I think that's really admirable.

 

I started another thread about my experiences at a Webelos open house last night. I had one small role to play in it, which was to take parents aside (so they wouldn't hover), and talk to them about our program. Ideally, I would have loved for one of the older scouts to do that while I sat behind him and offered assistance when necessary.

 

Officially, our troop would be considered "in transition" which to me is a code phrase that "we're moving extremely slowly back to being boy-led."

 

I was with "prospective parents" so I didn't monitor what was going on with the troop. The SM and two ASMs were there, though, and from the "happy noises" I heard, I think it went well.

 

I wish that our Scouts would get it, but I don't think they are thinking that way yet. The SM and his SPL-son were running a little late, so some Scouts were standing around while a few Webelos trickled in (6 total showed up, out of maybe 14 in town, by my estimates). I didn't want to have to do it, but I went over to a couple of the Scouts and asked if they had a game they could come up with to draw in the Webelos while they were waiting for the SPL to show up. They said "sure!" and then promptly did nothing. I noticed Webelos drifting towards them, and then drifting away. After a couple of minutes, I noticed a large group of younger scouts congregated, including my 12-yr-old, and I approached them quietly. I said something along the lines of "guys, the general idea is that we're trying to recruit Webelos, so can you go introduce yourselves and try and make them feel welcome?" A couple of them caught on and did so, but most didn't. I suppose that's our failing for not preparing them properly, but I don't think we could have been any more clear: it's an open house, and we're trying to recruit Webelos!

 

Eventually things started rolling, but it was a very rocky start.

 

Guy

 

[Narraticong]

In an earlier post I mentioned I attended a crossover Sunday with several of our Scouts. The boys handled the crossover as I stood in the background except to shake hands with the new Scouts and parents.

 

Yesterday my wife had her car in for service. The service manager has a younger boy in the Pack. He told my wife that if (when!) his boy joins Boy Scouts it will surely be to our Troop. He said it looks like we do things the right way and that the boys are having fun.

 

So people do take notice of how we do things. I had made it a point to tell the boys to socialize at the Blue and Gold Banquet rather than to sit stiffly at our table. I wanted people to see that Scouts have good manners and could behave as gentlemen without being watched over. These were my Patrol Leaders! Of course I had confidence in them. And the casual comment of an observer proved me right!

[Stosh]

BINGO! This boy-led, patrol-method stuff really works if given the chance! If one expects the best from their boys, they usually get it!

 

Congratulations on the comment, it is well earned.

 

Stosh

[fleetfootedfox]

Cubmaster responsibility is: "Meet with the unit commissioner, Webelos den leader, and Scoutmaster to establish plans for the Webelos Scouts' transition to Boy Scouting." ... and ... "Help plan and conduct impressive Webelos graduation ceremonies involving parents and guardians, the Scoutmaster, the Webelos den chief, the Webelos den leader, and the troop junior leaders."

 

Scoutmaster responsibility is: "Provide a systematic recruiting plan for new members and see that they are promptly registered."

[normanebromleyjr]

I am Cubmaster of a pack in NY and we are having a great deal of trouble with the Troop in regards to the crossing over ceremony at the Blue and Gold. Traditionally what we have done is have all the weblos II cross over to the SM and SPL who are waiting with the epilates and scarfs. Well, not all boys stay on as boy scouts. They had fun as cubs but that's enough for them. The the troop is now threatening not to attend our blue and gold unless we only let the boys who have signed registration papers cross over the bridge.

 

They say they want more of an induction into Boy Scout theme to it. "It should be more special that they are moving on." I told them that we've been doing the same way for so long, how do you tell kids that have seen scouts cross that bridge for four years that they can't.

 

They don't seem to be budging. I also said that if they want to make it special, there are plenty of ceremonies for them to perform at the first meeting.

 

I am between a rock and a hard place because the weblos II den leaders and parents are not receptive at all to anything being done differently.

 

Norman

[ScoutNut]

Is the SM willing to loose potential Scouts over the price of a scarf and shoulder loops?

 

Our Pack gives every Webelos their new loops and the Boy Scout Handbook. The Troop gives them their necker at their first COH. We have discussed only giving the Handbook to those boys who we knew for certain were going to go on into Boy Scouts. In the end we decided that we had no real way to know who would stick to Boy Scouts and who would not. Some might fill out a transfer application, and then never show up at a Troop meeting. Others might decide later that they wanted to give it a try. So, we decided the chance to get/keep a boy interested in Boy Scouts was worth the cost of the Handbook.

 

Encourage your Webelos to consider other Troops.

[Buffalo Skipper]

The topic of "Bridging" has been discussed (and beaten to death) on other sites. The bridge is the symbolic crossing from Cub Scouts to Boy Scouts. If the Webelos is not joining a troop but is "dropping out," there is no bridge to cross. To cross a bridge "for the fun of it" is akin to handing out Arrow of Lights, because they have been in Cub Scouts for 5 years, but they haven't completed the requirements. The bridge is joining the troop.

I am pretty much with the SM on this one.  I would not expect the youth to fill out his paperwork before crossing, but I would not cross a boy with whom I have not had a Scoutmaster conference (joining).  I went and visited 2 Webelos at home last night just for that purpose.

On the other hand, I would really question why a boy would tough out Webelos and not be interested in joining a Boy Scout troop.  The primary purpose of the Webelos program is to prepare boys for Boy Scouts.  AoL requirements 2 and 6 require knowing the Scout Oath and Law, and meeting with a troop to discuss joining.  While joining is not the requirement, it is largely a meaningless accomplishment if you don't.  I have never personally seen a situation where any boy who made it to the Blue and Gold did not cross.

Talk to those boys and find out why they stuck around if they are not continuing.  This is the real problem, not the SM who doesn't want to cross boys who are not joining.

[GKlose]

This is just pure speculation on my part, but when I hear something like "Webelos are not sure about joining a troop" I read that as "parents are not sure if they want their sons to continue with joining Boy Scouts".

 

Not long ago, at a troop-sponsored Webelos open house (I'm the membership chair of the troop), I had pulled parents aside while their sons were being involved. I was hoping only to keep them for a few minutes, but with questions, our session dragged out the full length of the troop meeting. Cub parents are not always hip to what the Scout program is all about. I stressed, with the group I was talking to, that while Cubs Scouts is all about parent-child, Boy Scouts most definitely isn't, and was based on individual growth. Still, I got questions like "will I be required to camp overnight with the troop?".

 

As a troop membership chair, when I hear about undecided Webelos, I'm thinking "opportunity for recruitment". I've already talked to the SM (SPL's dad) about whether or not the SPL will be available to drop by some Webelos den meetings to help convince some fence-sitters.

 

Anyway, maybe I'm reading this particular situation wrong, but I agree with the others. Crossover is for when there is another side to crossover to. In past Crossover ceremonies, where one troop or another couldn't make it, I've seen troops accept new members "by proxy", but that was kind of done in fun.

 

My younger son's pack does B&G, awards handouts, AoL and Crossover all in the same 4-hour event. It goes on way too long, but that is the way the CM has always done it, and always will do it while he is CM.

 

Guy