Eagle mill or running the program as designed

[SMT224]

Ex-squeeze me??!!

13 to 16 Eagle Merit Badges at a week-long summer camp "Eagle week"??

There are only 15 Eagle Merit Badges!

And there is no way to do all of them - even 13 of them - in a week!

As that cop said in the Matrix, "That's impossible!"

 

[Hal_Crawford]

Our council (NCAC) does a Trail to Eagle week. Looking at their schedule it appears that they offer 30 merit badges, some requiring serious prerequisites. Theoretically a scout could get maybe 11 merit badges without having to be two places at one time. In reality, I would think 5-6 would be more realistic. They are not all Eagle required (obviously) and some are low hanging fruit (fingerprinting, mammal study).

 

I don't think our troop has ever had a scout use this program. I personally think that scouts get enough summer camp merit badges as it is and I like to see them do more work with councilors at home (adult association). That said, I could see the usefulness if one lived in a smaller community where finding councilors might be more difficult. I doubt that I would tell a scout they couldn't do Trail to Eagle unless I knew for a fact that the camp was not following the requirements. I do know some scouts that can get intensely motivated for a week and Trail to Eagle might work better for them.

 

 

[Eagle92]

Well I know that my old council's winter camp focused on bunch of the "paper pushing" MBs that don't require outdoor activity, the Citizenships, Personal Management, Fingerprinting, etc. If a scout was serious enough and started on the prerequisites and extended requirements like the budget in PM, etc, then they could earn the MB that week. otherwise it's a partial.

[Nike]

I'd rather be in a troop where almost every Scout Eagles because they are enthusiastic and enjoying the program than a troop where it's a special honor because the boys drop out from boredom.

[mmhardy]

The Trail to Eagle program offers more then the Eagle required badges. From the web site it states....

 

"The Trail to Eagle program is specifically designed for the older Scout to give him the opportunity to work on the merit badges he needs to finish his Eagle Rank requirements. It is a one week, highly structured program sponsored by the Detroit Area Council and held at the D-bar-A Scout Ranch.

 

Over 2160 Eagle candidates from 12 states, 31 councils, as well as from the Far East and Trans Atlantic Councils, have attended the Trail to Eagle Camp. For the year 2007, we had 191 Scouts participate from six states, eleven different councils, and a Scout from Shanghai, China. All districts from the Detroit Area Council were represented.

 

Over 55% of our candidates have attained the rank of Eagle Scout and even more are still working on achieving this lofty goal.

 

We have had 36 staff members who have been with the program for ten years or more. There is a ratio of one staff member for every two boys."

 

IMHO...Ya pays yer money, come prepared to work, ya gets yer stuff for Eagle.

 

 

[SMT224]

mmhardy - The description of the Eagle Week sounds great and very legitimate, but 13-16 MBs a session? From start to finish 6 to 8 merit badges is pushing it but possible during a week of summer camp (at an Eagle Week) with a significant amount of work by the Scout. But more than that I'd really have to wonder if the merit badge is being taught properly and they are actually doing the requirements. Of course if the Scout has done many of the requirements before coming to camp it is possible to do more, but still!

 

I'm happy if the Scouts in our Troop can get 4 to 6 completed merit badges at summer camp. Beyond that they are either not participating in the rest of summer camp - games, skits, hanging out by the fire or lake, or the place is a mb mill and they are really not doing the requirements or learning anything.

[mmhardy]

That number is based on COH results I've seen in the fall. If a boy hits summer camp and Trail to Eagle that number is pretty typical. Sorry if I implied this was achieved at a single session.

[Crew21_Adv]

Fellow Scouters,

 

 

Greetings!

 

 

Again my opinion. But all Scouts should do their share to earn the merit badges. If is a long list of requirements over at least a 90 day period, or two hours of observation and writing a 200 word report.

 

So, This Trail to Eagle sounds intriguing. Bringing some experienced campers and merit badge counselors together with some Scouts (probably First Class thru Life).

 

Many councils have developed programs for First Class Advancement during Summer Camp. Or they adopted/mirrored a similar program from other councils.

 

A Trail to Eagle Summer program sounds great, hopefully the idea gets picked up across the BSA camping programs.

 

Personally, I have seen a few summer camps with a "High Adventure Trek" week for the older Life/Eagle Scouts. I have also seen a tailor made "Ranger Week" for Venturers to work on the Ranger Award (not too successful though). Good ideas. Those that attend the high adventure week do a few unique things, but don't earn a merit badge, don't even earn a 50 miler. It is a fun adventurous week, but no achievement, certification, or recognition afterwards. The Ranger Week (for the Ranger Award) just has not yet drawn individual Venturers to register for it. There is a recognition they work towards, but I have not seen any Venturers sign up for it.

 

Since the Nature of Leadership Kodiak course has debuted, I have advised that those councils use their "High Adventure Trek" or "Ranger Week" program to conduct a Kodiak course. Still I've hit resistance. So the Summer camps have a trek, with adventure but miss out on the opportunity to complete Kodiak at the same time.

 

All that to say.... A good unit program, and a good Summer camp program (call it Eagle Mill if you want) can allow a Cub, Scout or Venturer complete a few once in a lifetime achievements. If it is towards the Cub ranks, First Class Scout, Eagle Scout, or a Venturing Award.

 

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

[shortridge]

Crew21, those programs have indeed been around for a while in some areas.

 

My council ran a Trail to Eagle provisional camp for several years in the '90s, offering Eagle-required badges. It ran the week following the last week of summer camp and had an all-volunteer staff. It was attractive to many Scouts because the cost was lower than regular summer camp - in part because the Scouts helped take camp down.

 

The program was then folded into the regular summer camp program as "Eagle Base." It used to be based at a lodge a short hike away from main camp, but has since been mainstreamed into the regular program area. You can still go as a provisional camper, but the MBs are also open to anyone attending with their units. It offers Citizenship in the World, Citizenship in the Nation, Emergency Prep, Personal Management, Lifesaving, Computers, Communications and First Aid. One neat element is that the Citizenship in the Nation participants do a day trip to D.C., since we're just a few hours away.

 

I can see the value to some Scouts, but overall, I'm not a huge fan of such programs. Camp should have an outdoors emphasis, IMHO. I'd be in favor of folding Emergency Prep and First Aid into the outdoor skills program area and have done with it.

 

I would love to see a Ranger Rendezvous-type program - a week or long weekend - for Venturers... not so much to get the items checked off, but just to expose them to a wide range of local opportunities and program options.(This message has been edited by shortridge)

[Gonzo1]

ASM411,

It doesn't sound like you have an Eagle Mill.

I think it's OK to have themed outings, it makes them interesting and fun. But, I personally think it's mill like to sign off requirements for a particular badge on the campout because everyone lashed a gadget, built the fire, served as MC, etc.

 

I think most parents have their heart in the right place, but I also agree with Beavah that the typical 11 year old probably could not successfully pack, hike, camp, perform first aid, fix the stove and organize the rescue.

 

Becoming an Eagle is an adventure, a way of life, not merely getting through the hoops, not a race or something nice on a resume. I've actually heard boys say "I don't need to build the fire, I have that signed off". Merely getting it signed off does not mean he has an ounce of proficiency.

 

Do your outings and continue to point out what requirement are happening, they'll get the idea.

 

All the best,

Gonzo1

[GKlose]

Our local camp has an Eagle Week, and the older scouts in our troop tend to skip summer camp with the troop in order to go to the Eagle Week. I think when I was a scout, I would have liked to do both, but by the time I was older (15+) I was working at the camp anyway.

 

On the other hand, a reasonably active scout that goes to summer camp probably isn't trying to fit all 15 required in at camp. First or second year of camp, they might have worked on Swimming or First Aid. In subsequent years, they might toss in Lifesaving and Environmental Science, or others.

 

And on the other other hand, there are some merit badges I probably wouldn't encourage a scout to do at an Eagle Week. Although I don't know for sure, I would get the feeling that the badges are somewhat short-changed at camp. For example, Personal Management. I think that would be something much better done on one's own, with a counselor that is a professional in the personal finance field. The Citizenships? I would guess that would feel somewhat watered down if it were done in a classroom setting with dozens of other scouts.

 

Guy

[Eagledad]

A few years back our district committee was having trouble finding someone to plan and lead our annual District Merit Badge Fair. Because of that, we (the district committee) considered canceling it. When word of that got out, I got a rush of calls from Scoutmasters complaining that if we canceled the fair, their scouts would not be able to advance. In short, the troops in our District had developed their unit advancement program down to the MB fair and summer camp.

 

I got the brunt of the calls from SMs because it was my suggestion to the committee to cancel the Fair. I wasnt a fan of the fair anyways, but my suggestion was based from the idea that District shouldnt have to provide any activity that the units arent willing to support.

 

The committee took the calls from the SMs as a sign of urgency to get the MB fair going. I got up and told them that it is the units job to provide a healthy program of advancement and the fair is a major cause of the problem and continuing the fair was just feeding the problem. We should be training the SMs to how they are supposed to lead the advancement part of their program. The committee didnt take my suggestion.

 

We keep getting into discussions where folks on the forum keep promoting the old traditional scout program, and then follow with ideals and activities that counter traditional scouting. Our district MB Fair started 25 years ago as a way of providing scouts an opportunity to earn hard to earn MBs like oceanography and veterinary medicine. In the beginning, there wasnt more than a dozen badges offered. But the fair grew into the monster we see today because each year the adults planning the program try to one up each other by making the next year bigger and better. Bragging rights go to the planners who bring in the most scouts. Planners of our district fair are reaching out to scouts in other districts. The fair has developed into a day where scouts had to be in the building by 8:00 am and couldnt leave until 4:00pm. One room was used to hold those roudy scouts who disrupted a class. Adults roamed the halls trying to catch scouts not in a class during class time. Does this sound like Scouting? I talked to one scoutmaster who brought scouts in their Webelos uniforms. He just signed them up for his troop that week and was trying to give them a good start, he said. Sheesh!

 

The BSA has Mission of developing men who make ethical decisions, is this program working toward that goal? If you look at the policy recommendations for a scout to sign up for a MB, the scout is supposed to seek a list from the scoutmaster, choose a counselor, contact that counselor, set up schedule of meetings with the counselor, fill out the MB card with all the information and then get the Scoutmasters signature before he even starts to work on the badge.

 

Those proceedures are all very important opportunties to practice organization, communication and social etiquette. All important traits that young adults should practice for their future in society. All of this was skipped in our MB fair by getting the scout to sign up for all his badges weeks before the fair. The SM is not envolved at all and doesn't sign the car until the scout is finished the class, typically in one day.

 

There are those here who talk about the bad example of scouters not following all the YP rules, yet it is OK to ignore these little guidelines to streamline a scout to faster rank advancement. Honestly I think in the big picture of the Mission of scouting, skipping the simple guidelines for signing up for a MB is a greater crime. And yet, just about every BSA summer camp requires the units to do just that.

 

Its hard for me to define and Eagle mill. With adults who feel determined to raise the number of Eagles, Im not so sure that our whole program hasnt made the turn to being and Eagle mill. I personally think that sort of attitude feeds an Eagle Mill mentality and hurts the main program in general.

 

We have a few troops in our district that brag that they will get your son his eagle by age 14 if the scout cooperates with their program. Interestingly those are the biggest units in the district, and yet have the weakest older scout programs. The adults of those units tend to lead our District Merit Badge Fair as well.

 

I feel strongly that you will accurately measure the quality of a troop by the quality of the older scouts. I'm starting to also believe that you can measure the quality of the adults by measuring there priorities of the Eight Methods. A troop that needs outside MB programs to advance their scouts have poor quality program.

 

I think the first challenge for any unit to try and not be an Eagle mill is to guide their scouts to follow the procedures for signing up for ALL their MBs. Even at summer camp. That alone will get the adults to focus a little more on developing skills of character instead of badge of stature. I promise that those units will see a dramatic difference in scouts confidence and social skills with other adults. And if that scout fails to earn his promised Eagle, well he still has those other skills to use the rest of his life.

 

Sorry this went long. I promise that it started short and just went on and on. Hey have a great day all.

 

I love this scouting stuff.

 

Barry

 

[Buffalo Skipper]

Barry,

I believe you summed up your post extremely well. Before I took over as SM, I worked (and continue to do so) to help scouts follow the MB program which BSA intends to happen. I have a large crop of younger scouts, and we hope to get our troop back on this track. Thanks for the great post.

[shortridge]

Eagledad,

 

As a point of interest, how do your Scouts follow the MB sign-up guidelines (get a list of counselors, contact counselor, set up meetings, etc.) at summer camp?

 

My experience has been that there's usually one counselor per badge and they meet at set times during the day.(This message has been edited by shortridge)

[Eagledad]

>>As a point of interest, how do your Scouts follow the MB sign-up guidelines (get a list of counselors, contact counselor, set up meetings, etc.) at summer camp?