Patrol Method vs. NYLT

[Stosh]

My senior most scout having returned from NYLT stated it was the worst training he has had when it came to boy-led, patrol-method, and has been thus researching back into historical BSA material to "find out how it was really done". He's the same one who stated he wouldn't go to the Centennial Jamboree unless the council contingent was boy-led, patrol-method. Just this past week he snagged up a copy of inquiry.net's patrol leader training and will be organizing that for the boys in the next month rather than the TLT material.

 

Anyone else experiencing a similar situation?

 

Stosh

[SR540Beaver]

No. My SPL son of a boy led troop just staffed NYLT this summer and loved it. Different strokes I guess.

[MichaelOA]

My council, has only done NYLT once, and was slightly lacking, but to be honest I think it was just because we were the guinea pigs. We never really went over boy led that much, our main focus was working on communication it seemed, but we did learn somethings about leading the troop, which in some ways can be thought of or put into practice for a boy led group. I found no big flaws in the program really. Maybe it's just how your council ran the program. It can only run as well as the people leading it, and sadly that's not always the best people for the program.

 

(Added:)

The NYLT program, should only strengthen the bond, and leadership within your troop and patrols. So if what your troop is learning at NYLT is contradicting that you might want to talk more about it with them, and consider speaking to the person in charge of the program in your council, make some suggestions and find out what really happened, what they went over, and how they can improve it. If no one ever says anything issues can't be fixed, and they will assume the program is working correctly.(This message has been edited by MichaelOA)

[Eagledad]

>>Anyone else experiencing a similar situation?

[Kudu]

jblake47 writes:

 

"My senior most scout having returned from NYLT stated it was the worst training he has had when it came to boy-led, patrol-method, and has been thus researching back into historical BSA material to "find out how it was really done"....Just this past week he snagged up a copy of inquiry.net's patrol leader training and will be organizing that for the boys in the next month rather than the TLT material."

 

Apples and Oranges!

 

The BSA replaced the "Patrol Method" with the "Leadership Development" Method.

 

Buy a copy of the Scoutmaster-specific training course and read the session on the Patrol Method. The chapter does not even MENTION Patrol Leaders or Scout Patrols!

 

The Patrol Leader Training course on The Inquiry Net is the exact opposite of BSA "Leadership Development" courses: "Intensive Training in the Green Bar Patrol" teaches Patrol Leaders how to lead what the historical BSA called a "Real Patrol." The Scoutmaster shows (by doing) the Patrol Leaders how to run PATROL ADVANCEMENT through PATROL MEETINGS, PATROL HIKES, and PATROL CAMPOUTS. See:

 

http://inquiry.net/patrol/green_bar/index.htm

 

I haven't staffed NYLT, but it is probably like all BSA "leadership" training, including Scoutmaster-specific. The idea is that all managers (hyped as "leaders") use the same techniques to run any "group," be it the Raven Patrol or a department at Enron or Lehman Brothers.

 

However, NYLT at my last Council was run by old geezers who ran the NYLT course like the old Wood Badge Course (intentional perpetual confusion): Patrols were separated by about 300 feet and left to fend for themselves. When they got hungry enough they figured out how to get supplies from the Course Quartermaster, organize their Patrol, cook for themselves, and get to classes early enough to avoid the bark and bite of Uncle Grumpy.

 

Therefore, if your local NYLT totally immerses your Patrol Leaders in sink-or-swim Patrol Method, the course content does NOT matter. They could spend the week learning Klingon and come back with the same practical skills, because the Patrol Method is learned by LIVING the Patrol Method, NOT by studying "leadership" theory.

 

What NYLT has to offer is a week in the company of the best Patrol Leaders in the Council.

 

It sounds like your local course falls short.

 

If the decision is pick one or the other: Patrol Leader Training OR NYLT, then pick Patrol Leader Training--or you will end up like the typical BSA Troop where a BSA "Real Patrol" (independent boy-led Patrol Advancement, Patrol Meetings, Patrol Hikes, and Patrol Campouts) is unheard of.

 

Kudu

 

[gcnphkr]

"Buy a copy of the Scoutmaster-specific training course and read the session on the Patrol Method. The chapter does not even MENTION Patrol Leaders or Scout Patrols!"

 

Yep. It talks about adult leadership methods (Directing, Coaching, Supporting and Delegating)and the presentation no longer follows the syllabus but goes into EDGE training methods at this point. About as useful as the videos in the course (which at the last district training was the most popular Stop, as in "Stop using those videos"). No wonder scouters don't have any idea of what the Patrol Method is.

[gcnphkr]

--Anyone else experiencing a similar situation?

 

I had two scout attend this Summer as participants and another scout as a Troop Guide (he also went to NAYLE this Summer). They were excited when they got back and believe that they can make the Patrol Method work in the troop. They should be the next SPL and ASPLs for the troop so they will get their chance. There certainly has been improvement in the way all three scouts present themselves and the way they lead. They will be conducting the next TLT. I will only be sharing my vision for the troop, they will do the rest. They will continue through their term with on going Patrol Leader Training.

[Kudu]

jet526 writes:

 

"No wonder scouters don't have any idea of what the Patrol Method is."

 

Increasingly Wood Badge leadership "experts" define the "Patrol Method" as a vehicle or place to practice "leadership skills." In other words, the "Patrol Method" is Leadership Development's play thing.

 

Hold an election every six months, camp in the corner of a tiny campsite, and call it "The Patrol Method." Could a Cub Scout ask for anything more?

 

jet526 writes:

 

"They will continue through their term with on going Patrol Leader Training."

 

Jet, What will you use for this Patrol Leader Training?

 

Kudu

 

[gcnphkr]

--Jet, What will you use for this Patrol Leader Training?

 

The Green Bar Patrol at Inquiry.net: http://inquiry.net/patrol/green_bar/index.htm They may need to adapt it some, instead of having it on a separate night they may end up having it as a part of the PLC. PLC runs from 6:00 - 7:00 so they would likely extend it to 8:00. If they decide to do it on another night that is okay with me, but parents tend to be more of an issue as you add nights. Also, I would prefer that the SPL be the Patrol Leader instead of me. I want to get the scouts used to adults only being there in a supplemental capacity. That may be too much for the SPL though with his other responsibilities. Long term I could see this being a good responsibility for a JASM.

[Eagledad]

>>I haven't staffed NYLT

[Vicki]

>Patrol Method is learned by LIVING the Patrol Method, NOT by studying "leadership" theory.

 

What NYLT has to offer is a week in the company of the best Patrol Leaders in the Council. >

 

This is pretty much the philosophy our council uses (I've staffed NYLT twice). It's patrol method cooking, each participant gets the chance to be PL, duty rosters, daily PLCs, all under the watchful eyes of a youth SPL and three TGs. The youth I've worked with as staff have been some of the most outstanding youth I've ever met. The presentations, games, etc., are also part of the schedule. It's a busy week!

 

Youth are not allowed to register for NYLT unless their Scoutmaster has been through training.

 

Vicki

 

(This message has been edited by Vicki)

[Kudu]

>>I haven't staffed NYLT

[Stosh]

Kudu, do you find that team-building isn't something that is developed with activities in the "Real Patrols", but is already there? I find that my boys seem to clique together which boys will do anyway without any designed activities. Thus far, I have not had any boys that want to move from their present patrol because all their buddies now are in one patrol (not something they would have said a year ago when the patrols were formed). My biggest problem this year is to try and convince some of the strong leadership boys from the patrols that they should start their own patrols of new boys this coming Blug/Gold season, not an easy sell.

 

Stosh

 

 

[Kudu]

 

jblake47 writes:

 

"Kudu, do you find that team-building isn't something that is developed with activities in the "Real Patrols", but is already there?"

 

Leadership Development is based on the idea that all groups have similar dynamics. If I remember correctly, the Scoutmaster-specific "Patrol Method" session never even uses the term "Patrol" to refer to a group of Scouts. It always uses a generic term like "troop/patrol/group." The message is that a "Patrol" is just a convenient unit in which to practice "modern" manager skills.

 

Sitting in a circle talking about how your parents picked your first name is "modern leadership;" organizing a Patrol Hike on Saturday to find "10 signs of wildlife" without adult supervision is "old-fashioned."

 

I submit that the activities of Real Patrols naturally build teams. Why practice "team-building" exercises when you can play Traditional Wide Games?

 

jblake47 writes:

 

"My biggest problem this year is to try and convince some of the strong leadership boys from the patrols that they should start their own patrols of new boys this coming Blue/Gold season, not an easy sell."

 

I identify the strongest available potential leader and set aside some time to talk. I tell him why I need his help, and I recite the specific situations over the years where I saw him display leadership. I explain why these actions show that he would make a good Patrol Leader. Then I ask point blank "What would it take to get you to lead a Patrol of new Scouts?"

 

I already know who his friends are, so while he is thinking of a reply I name at least two other Scouts in his posse (one of whom would make a good Quartermaster) and I suggest that they form the core of his new Patrol.

 

Then I suggest that he take some time to think about it. I ask if he has any objections to me talking to the Scouts that I just named. I meet with each of them individually and ask him if he would be willing to help, and I ask what he thinks it would take to make it happen.

 

Boys like to be in the role of consultant.

 

We do not hold regular elections, so the best Patrol Leaders usually serve for as long as they continue to be the best.

 

Kudu

 

[Eagledad]

>>Personal attack is the unsinkable rubber ducky of Leadership Development.