Patrol Camping ideas

[oldsm]

Methinks that jblake47 is hung up too much on semantics vis a vis patrol method/troop method. It sounds to me like you made some excellent decisions and salvaged the weekend. Close physical proximity doesn't mean that patrols can't function as patrols. The important thing is that the boys are learning to take control of their activities under reasonable adult guidance. Trust your instincts. I believe you're on the right path.

[Stosh]

Semantics? Boy-led does not mean the adults come in and realign patrols, establish new leadership dynamics and then plop the whole thing into the same pot in order to "salvage the weekend". Boy-led means the boys continue to lead as they have in their assigned patrols regardless of the situation one finds themselves in and unless it's a G2SS or YP issue, it is to continue to function as is. Patrol-method does not mean mix and match, it means the patrols function as patrols regardless of how many show up.

 

The activity did not require adult interference, nor patrol realignment in order to go surfing and camp. They could very easily have maintained the integrity of the boy-led, patrol-method very well had the adults stayed out of the process and let the boys problem solve their circumstances and do their scout thing.

 

Stosh

[oldsm]

You and I don't know the unit. These were younger scouts - who knows better than their adult leaders how much they are capable of at this point? The older boys bailed on them - sounds like their leadership abandoned them. I'll bet that the weekend provided some food for thought for those who went. I do think it's presumptuous of us to second-guess based on our experiences with our own units.

[jtswestark]

Buffalo think you did fine. You always need to be ready to make adjustments on the fly and while it isnt always textbook you have to make the best of it, which you did. Also you are making a conversion to methods that are unfamiliar to your troop. Nothing wrong with taking some baby steps before you try to run. I was a little surprised to hear about how you handled the COH, but it sounds like it worked out well and gave your outgoing SPL a good experience. Nothing wrong with that. But now you have time to start working with your incoming SPL from the start and prepare him for how you want him to set up future events. By the end of his term, or sooner, hell know what to do without you having to give any direction, or minimal at most. Then his ASPL / other Junior Leaders are watching him and keep the ball rolling. The process perpetuates itself.

 

As you found its tough to function on a campout as a patrol of only two. What we will do is at our prior meeting when all the permission slips, menu & duty rosters are due, we see who is coming and the SPL will combine patrols as needed to make at least a functioning patrol for the weekend. Allows the grubmaster time to get food for the combined patrol and at least for that weekend they act as one. It doesnt happen that often anymore as weve learned when structuring patrols every term to size them at 7 to 9 Scouts so they can still function if up to four dont go on that campout. We have to know numbers by that time anyways to make sure we have adequate drivers and adult leadership. A little variety in their patrol make up is ok as they get to work with some different guys here and there.

If youre still bouncing around 10 Scouts in the troop, you may just want to operate from here on out as one patrol (without an SPL) until your crossovers bring you enough for a second and maybe third patrol. But if you already have boys assigned in roles, just work it the best you can until crossover.

 

[ASM915]

Smitty,

It's nice to see your posts starting to roll in. Welcome from another Westarker.

"A little variety in their patrol makeup is ok as they get to work with some other guys...", yeah, especially with all those provisional scouts we have sent you over the years for SPL2B, etc.

 

By the way, are you going to camperall, and could you accommodate a couple of provisionals?.

 

ASM915

[Stosh]

Creative problem solving is a major part of the leadership skill set for the boys. Having the boys (at any age, even if it's their very first outing) come up with a solution for their problem would have been a great opportunity for learning. By stepping in, the adults took this learning opportunity away from the boys. The boys gain knowledge by watching someone else, they gain knowledge AND experience by doing it themselves.

 

If the goal is eventual independent patrol outings, it might be a good idea for the adults to learn what the boys would do if given this situation on an independent outing away from the adults. Had the boys worked out a good solution to this problem, it would have gone a long way towards the goal of adultless outing approval. However, at this point a learning opportunity for the SM was also lost.

 

Stosh

[jtswestark]

Stosh - good points, but I would suggest moderation and one step at a time; he's bringing them some very fundamental changes. They need to get in place the fundamentals and some small victories to show the method works to get buy in (which he's starting to get). If he moves too fast and upsets their apple cart too much things can go bad very quickly (been there).

 

Heya Eric! Glad to be here, been reading around for a couple months but actually posting is much more fun than I expected. You need to send us some more provisional guys we love the interaction! In about the past 8 years of summer camps I can recall, weve brought on provisional/SPL2B guys each year and everyone has been a positive experience for our troop. Some I still run into every now and then. Ill email you about the Camporall, wed love to have your guys join us.

 

Jack Smith

 

 

[Stosh]

I used to think one little step at a time was the way to go, but then I found that such processes do more to stifle change than actually bring it about. If the adults are working one step at a time, not only do the boys have to make steps to make changes they have to know which steps to make. This adds to another whole new guessing game where the boys try and figure out where the adults are in their change process. Today we change socks, what gets changed tomorrow? This guessing game really frustrates the boys because they have no idea where the adults expect them to be.

 

I have found that all the adults need to get on the same page as to what the final goal for the troop is going to be and then strive at every step, ever dynamic, every opportunity to direct activities in that direction. 100% change in expectations. Make them clear and the boys will understand.

 

After one intense year of learning, I no longer hear, "What am I supposed to be doing?" when talking to adults and it's been replaced by, "That's my job." when talking to adults.

 

At Buffalo's outing, none of the boys felt it necessary to make a decision and instead of taking leadership initiative, waited and followed what the adults directed. These kinds of opportunities to teach come along all the time and most adult-led programs don't even realize it because it's easier to lead than it is to trust the boys to lead.

 

Even after a year, I am constantly asking myself if this particular activity I'm involved with is being boy led or am I interferring too much? Never do ANYTHING a boy can do on his own. Most SM's get to the point where they tell their scouts to ask their PL's when there is a problem, but how many SM's ask their PL's what they think would be a good solution to problems they face? If they ask for such suggestions, never give them just one. Offer two or three solutions and let the boy make the decision. Keep the initiative of leadership on the boys! If they make a mistake or poor decision, evaluate the problem, look for solutions to rectify things and then let the boy make the decision to correct the error.

 

The SM is there to teach leadership, not lead.

 

Stosh

[Beavah]

Yah, jblake has a point, eh, but I reckon yeh did an OK job.

 

"Patrol Collapse" on a particular outin' is an issue for many troops. By and large, da preferred solution of the boys is to consolidate most of the time. One or two guys, especially one or two younger guys, don't really want to camp alone, or do all the work of campin' alone. So unless the adults step in and prohibit such a solution, that's usually what happens. Now, if an adult prohibits or otherwise directs that they must not consolidate, then I reckon we have adult-run, patrol-method campin'.

 

I honestly think that the best methods for preventin' "patrol collapse" on campouts and keep patrol method alive include the following:

 

Use Patrol Competition. On Buffalo's outing, da structure of the outing was centered around individual activity - surfing with adult supervision. If what you're doin' is going out and havin' individual activity, then it's quite natural for each individual to make choices about participation without considering the effect on the group. However, if instead of individual activity the outing was structured as a team activity by patrol, then there's peer pressure and a sense of obligation to the team to show up, so that your team doesn't do poorly, eh? That in turn leads to more patrol spirit, and higher participation, which leads to more patrol spirit, eh?

 

Make Patrols Bigger. Another way to approach things is to make da size of patrols larger. I'm not sure if yeh mentioned patrol size, Buff, but I've noticed that in the modern world of competin' activities and overscheduled youth, Baden-Powell's old 6-8 person patrol often doesn't work. Patrol sizes in da 10-12 range seem to hold up a lot better. If you're averagin' 50-70% participation rates on any given outing, that gets yeh BP's ideal field patrol size of 6-8 when you're campin'. And if a few more lads get sick or get homeworked to death, yeh still have a viable patrol of 4 for independent hikin'.

 

Make Assistant PL a real job. And make it known that either da PL or Assistant should be on every outing. BSA suggests firin' PL's who don't do their duty, but I'm not real fond of that newfangled notion, eh? I do think there's room for SM conferences and mentoring for lads who haven't yet figured out leadership is a commitment to others, though. If they scheduled it, and their guys are there, they need to be there barrin' true disaster. Perhaps next time they need a BOR, schedule it and have only one committee member show up. Use it to talk about how it feels when leaders don't follow through.

 

One last thing - never do for a boy what he can do for himself is a good rule of thumb, for sure. But when you're just startin' out or rebuilding a troop, in the beginnin' the lads don't have much experience and really aren't able to do that much for themselves. Yeh have to ask yourself "Have I trained him in this particular thing?" "Have I coached him in it and watched him do it under my supervision at least once?" If not, yeh need to do that, eh? At least if there's no older scout available yet. We give boys freedom to grow, but we don't abandon boys to flail around. And even if a lad is ready to be left to his own devices on a task, yeh still have to find some time for evaluation and feedback at the end. Your use of Roses & Thorns was good that way, eh?

 

Overall, I think you're doin' good. Da next few years should be fun for you and the boys.

 

Keep it fun, eh!

 

Beavah

[Buffalo Skipper]

Thanks every one of you for your advice, especially those of you critical or questioning of my/our actions. Whether I agree or disagree with your advice is not really the point. It is these opposing viewpoints which most make me consider and evaluate my own direction. Our goal is to bring our troop into a position in which they act as patrols, and with your suggestions, I believe that we will be there soon.

 

Tonight is the first PLC with our new SPL, after which I will have more on which to base our "current" and "upcoming" status.

[Bob White]

Use the Patrol method in everything they do before during and after the activity.

Just as a few examples

BEFORE

The patrol plans, food, equipment, collect the money, does the shopping does the packing, arranges transportaion, draws equipment. Plans patrol activities, participates in troop activities as Patrols.

 

DURING

The patrol sets up a separate campsite, tents together, cooks together eats together, participates in traoop activities as a patrol, works on patrol activities as a patrol, cleans up together packs up together.

 

AFTER

The Patrol returns, stores gear together, evaluates the event together, makes adjustments for the next event together, starts the process over again...together

 

 

 

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)