Patrol Camping. Adults needed?

[croushorn]

Thank you GWD for your examples, youve provide many good details. They are much more helpful than the chest thumping that tends to go on here. I have made fire!

 

And having studied Latin,

What!? You mean its not even Lenai Lenape? Oh, Ive been ripped off.

 

[Stosh]

Unless the Indians were studying at Princeton or Harvard, chances are ursus is the Latin word for "a bear". The other two words seem to be cheesy Latin sounding words that attempt to imitate like something like Latin with the "-us" endings. Yep, if one is thinking that this is some Native American language name, they got ripped off big time. Maybe next time the OA guys ought to call up their regional tribal councils for appropriate names instead of trying to be humous at the expense of Native Americans especially if the name is as important as a vigil name.

 

Stosh

[croushorn]

duh, it's a spoof name....

[RememberSchiff]

Another odd thing. So far, I have found no BSA award which recognizes the accomplishment of an adult-less patrol campout.

 

I suppose, a solo requirement could be added to National Honor Patrol and use that border patch. But, how about a new border patch with "wings", "rocket engines", "broken chains",.. something which would attach to the patrol emblem to show their accomplishment? Or is there a ribbon for the patrol flag that I missed?

[Stosh]

Why do boys need an award for everything? Doing what most adults somehow will never allow the boys to do should be a pretty big "win" for these boys without needing a patch, ribbon or medal to remind them that this is really what scouting is all about.

 

Stosh

[RememberSchiff]

Yes. I think higher of a patrol which has planned and executed an adult-less campout than a patrol which has not but has completed National Honor Patrol. Also an award would help promote this as a goal and have other patrols and troops asking "What's that?" We all seem to agree that this is a patrol goal.

 

In exchange, I agree to drop another existing award(s) - your choice and plenty to choose from our abundant award inventory.

[Bob White]

Based on how few "trained" leaders seem to know about or use patrol activities,(in spite of all the places in the program it is talked about) perhaps it is not the scouts who need the recognition for this one? Maybe we need a a special scoutmasters patch to identify the scoutleaders that know and implement this program element?

 

 

[Stosh]

Oooh... oooh... oooh.... let's make it a new knot...pleeeeeze! If it were a knot then everyone would want one. They aren't going to change their ways, but dang, it'd look great in the 12th row of battle ribbons.

 

Stosh

[Kudu]

RememberSchiff writes:

 

Another odd thing. So far, I have found no BSA award which recognizes the accomplishment of an adult-less patrol campout.

 

The BSA term for a Patrol that hiked (and eventually camped) without adult supervision was "Real Patrol."

 

The Patrol Leader Training course that taught them how to do it was "Intensive Training in the Green Bar Patrol."

 

RememberSchiff writes:

 

Or is there a ribbon for the patrol flag that I missed?

 

Maybe a Green Bar "Trained" ribbon?

 

Kudu

 

Intensive Training in the Green Bar Patrol:

 

http://inquiry.net/patrol/green_bar/index.htm

[RememberSchiff]

Kudu, thanks for the link.

[nrp1488]

In Maryland, state park regulations require 1 adult leader for every 10 youths for all activities except water related when 1 leader for every 5 youths is required.

[Stosh]

Well, in MD then maybe patrols ought to find someplace other than state parks to camp in.

 

Stosh

[shortridge]

nrp1488,

 

Are you certain about those Maryland regs? I don't recall those rules from my youth (early '90s), and couldn't find any such reference on the state park Web site. The only ratio I could find is a 1:5 rule for groups using a free "youth pass" for groups.

[GaHillBilly]

"In Maryland, state park regulations require 1 adult leader for every 10 youths for all activities except water related when 1 leader for every 5 youths is required."

 

It's probably worth checking out . . . some regulations are promulgated that have no legal basis. Of course, the ranger can still arrest you, and it will take a lawyer and $$$ to prove that he did it without a basis. And unfortunately, the ridiculousness of a requirement is no evidence that it is not an actual law!

 

Here locally, I've been told that in Georgia State Parks, I and the Scouts with me can be arrested for walking in the woods off trail, and that people are allowed ONLY on trail or in the developed camp sites.

 

If you think I'm making this up, here's the number for Cloudland Canyon State Park: (706) 657-4050. I think it's "0#" for a live person. I even called the regional director who hemmed and hawed and mumbled, but then basically affirmed what the ranger had said. Neither of them would cite a law or reference, but both were quite offended when I asked for one! Neither could tell me whether I would, or would not, be arrested if I stepped off the trail to pee.

 

In the Cherokee National Forest, there are several sign boards which publish detailed explanations / regulations concerning HOW to camp in undeveloped areas. Near two of these sign boards (less than 500' away) are new signs along the roadway which say, "Camp in Designated Areas Only".

 

I suppose that if we only camp on concrete and only walk on asphalt, we'll come closer to "Leaving No Trace", hey?

 

By the way, I discovered that many of the newly closed areas are awaiting trails due to be completed sometime in the next 10 - 15 years. What's the hold up? Because of rescue and handicap access requirements, the trails must be leveled and a minimum of 8' wide, costing $1,000's per foot! Man width trails, which could be finished quickly and cheaply, are verboten!

 

At this rate, we'll soon see safety belts and outriggers required on kayaks, silencers required on rifles and shotguns, non-locking carabiners forbidden, and match boxes with attached fire extinguishers! No doubt ropes will have to be certified as to stiffness, so that they cannot be accidentally formed into a noose. While we're at it, since knives and hatchets do so much damage to forest trees and human tissue, they will to be serialized, and sold by licensed dealers, And, since "cotton kills" (or so I'm told by many very authoritative BSA 'experts'), we'll have to pass fabric inspection stations on entering outdoor recreation areas, unless the TSA can come up with some remote scanners that will do the job.

 

Sounds like a blast! (Oops, sorry - forgot about hearing loss -- I meant a "Sounds like a quiet toot!")

 

 

GaHillBilly

[mc99218]

YES...Patrols can camp or hikr withoout the adult baggage.

 

and in most council TPs are not needed...its just another patrol activity..

 

BUT scoutmasters need to be comfortable with the patrols leadership, experience and competence...

 

Its all about trust

 

consult a savvy commissioner as DE are probably mis-informed or noy familiar with traditional scouting actvities

 

Adults have hijacked so many of scoutings activities that patrols now have forgoten their ability to plan and execute theiur own activities...

 

Patrol leaders ...take back your turf

 

all scouting is local

 

MCCET

PMTNPO

OWL