JASM About?

[Bob White]

But is there anything there that suggests they do not tent with other youth?

 

What does the youth's Senior Patrol Leader Handbook say?

(page 110)

" A Scout at least 16 years of age who has shown outstanding leadershipp in skills may be appointed by the senior patrol leader, with the advice and consent of the Scoutmaster. These young men (a troop may have more than one junior assistant Scoutmaster) follow the guidance of the Scoutmaster in providing support and supervision to the other boy leaders in the troop. Upon his 18th birthday, a junior assistant Scoutmaster will be eligible to be an assistant Scoutmaster.

 

That is the same thing that appears in the Scoutmaster Handbook as well on page 15. So there is no reason for your scoutmaster to not know this information. And as a Scout it is available to you as well in the SPL Handbook. Your Scoutmaster should have known to refer you there.

 

Notice that it is not the SCoputmaster's role to select you but to guide the SPL's decision in who is selected. Not everyone who turns 16 is supposed to be made a JASM.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MichaelOA]

"Notice that it is not the SCoputmaster's role to select you but to guide the SPL's decision in who is selected. Not everyone who turns 16 is supposed to be made a JASM."

 

Well, like previously said my troop doesn't run by the SPL's choices in anything, it's all an election, or the committee.

[Bob White]

And there in is the problem Michael, we can only tell you how it is supposed to be. If your Scoutmaster and the other adult leaders are not going to follow the program, then no matter how much you know of scouting the right thing will not get done in the your troop.

 

It all begins with trained and knowledgable leaders. I am glad you like your scoutmaster, I am sure he is a fine man, now if he only cared about knowing and following the program then you would have far fewer problems.

[NeilLup]

Whoa, Bob White,

 

I am extremely troubled by your criticizing a Scoutmaster to one of his or her Scouts.

 

There is a recommended procedure for selecting the leaders of a Troop and a Patrol, but it is not the only "correct" way. In fact, one major sponsor, the LDS Church, as a matter of church policy and procedure, uses a different method for selecting the leaders of their Troop.

 

Youth leadership is a method of Boy Scouting. It is not the only method. A Scoutmaster and Troop must balance the methods as they do Scouting. The Scoutmaster does have the prerogative, within very large latitude, of choosing the way that the Troop will use the methods of Scouting.

 

You might choose to do it exactly the way that the book recommends. So might I. But to criticize a Scoutmaster to a Scout in a Troop and suggest that a Scoutmaster is not following the program because he or she chooses to have all leaders elected is, in my opinion, way out of line.

[Bob White]

Neil,

What I said was that the Scoutmaster gave him incorrect information. That is a fact. It is an easily proven and undeniable fact. It is also one that should not have happened if any one of several readily available resources had been looked at.

 

As far as the criticizing the scoutmaster I think if you read Michael's posts you will find where he has great respect for the scoutmaster. If you biothered to read my posts again you would see I agreed that he was probably a fine person.

 

But he is wrong. Sometimes people are wrong, and in this case the Scoutmaster is wrong. I do not see how you can agree that the BSA program says one thing and the scoutmaster says another and not simply be able to say that one is right and one is wrong, and in this case the SM is wrong.

 

Just as with the committee who, according to Michael, chooses all the junior leader positions. That is not how the program is designed or supported. They are fine people I'm sure...but they are wrong.

 

Michael came here looking for accurate information. How can you show him that what the BSA says is very different from what his adult leaders are doing and not see that they are doing it incorrectly either purposely through choice or accidentally through lack of knowledge. But either way they are still ...wrong. Not bad people...just wrong.

 

 

[NeilLup]

Hello Bob White,

 

I will accept it if you say that the Scoutmaster is using a procedure different from that recommended by the book. However, I do not believe that he is "wrong." Scouting is not black and white, nor is it binary. There is, in my opinion, an extremely wide spectrum of acceptable ways to do things. The book recommends one way, or sometimes recommends more than one way. But that is not the only way in most cases, and doing something different is not wrong.

 

We are chartered to be leaders, not to be robots. We have the duty and responsibility to do what we think is most appropriate for our unit.

 

Now criticizing a leader in front of or to his Scouts?? That, in my opinion, is wrong! That is undercutting the person who has the duty, authority and responsibility for running the Troop.

 

Perhaps if I were meeting with that Scoutmaster privately and personally, I might suggest a different way to select youth leaders. I would probably reinforce it by showing the SM the book and how the book recommends things. But if, for example, I were the Unit Commissioner, I would not come into the meeting blowing a whistle, throwing a penalty flag and saying "You're doing it wrong." That's undercutting the SM. And in my opinion, publishing such a critique to a Scout concerning his SM is also undercutting the SM. But each of his has his or her own standard of how they interpret "A Scout is Courteous" and "A Scout is Obedient."

 

I certainly believe that it is appropriate to suggest to the Scout what the procedure is that the book recommends and to suggest ways to discuss this with the SM. But then I would state and do state that it is within the authority of the Scoutmaster prudently to suggest a different method.

 

 

[Bob White]

Yeah Neil a lot of scouting actually is black and white. Not all of it but certainly a lot of it. There is a right way and a wrong to do things in any activity. Sure you can try and make things grey rather than have to actually make a committment to follow the program, but not everyone has that much difficulty reading a paragraph or two and understanding what it says, and then having the ability to choose to follow the instructions.

 

The right way to select junior leaders is to elect the SPL and the patrol leaders and let them choose the rest. It says so in the BSA Scout Leader training, the junior leader training, all the handbooks, and it always has. To do it any other way is wrong, it is not the scouting program. Wearing the uniform and doing what you want to do is not scouting. Scouting has specific methods, practices, policies and structures. And when you do not follow them you are not actually Scouting, you are just dressing up like a Boy Scout.

 

To say that the JASM can no longer tent with other scouts is wrong. There is nothing in the BSA rules that says that, there is nothing in the BSA methods that recommend it, there is no reason to say that the rule exists or to manufacturer it. Whether the SM has chosen to create this uneeded and unwarranted rule, or whether he erroneously belives it to be true...he is wrong.

 

He is not bad...he is just wrong, and it every reference material on the topic in the BSA proves it.

 

You can choose to mislead Michael by making excuses for the Scoutmaster or you can answer his question using the BSA handbooks and tell him the truth. I think the right thing to do for the scout is to tell him the truth.

 

It is not our obligation to make his Scoutmaster look right, it is our obligation to give Michael the facts. It is the Scoutmaster's responsibility to know the program better.

[SMT224]

We use the JASM position very differently in our Troop than the initial post or subsequent messages.

 

A Scout usually, although not always, becomes a JASM following his stint as the SPL (The SPL in our Troop is almost always one of the older Scouts.). As JASM, the Scout is the primary mentor to the new SPL, and is the wise old sage for the Troop. He helps the new SPL deal with Troop meetings, camp outs, and especially summer camp. He is very much part of the Scouts, and does not hang with the adults. As Scoutmaster, I consult with the SPL on overall Troop operations, but will occasionally task the JASM with specific jobs that are beyond the scope of the SPL. The JASM is often working on his Eagle, so this leadership position allows him the time to focus on his project, yet still be an integral member of the Troop.

 

The idea that a JASM tents alone in the adult area is totally wrong. No Scout under 18 can ever tent alone - no matter the rank or leadership position. We keep our adult tent and table areas as separate as possible. The idea of bringing a JASM into the adult fold is just weird - what's the point? I can't imagine any of our JASMs who would want to hang with the old farts!

[gcnphkr]

"No Scout under 18 can ever tent alone"

 

I have heard this, but I've not found the source for it. As far as I can tell it is not in the Guide to Safe Scouting. Nor does the new T9a requirement as it is possible to use the buddy system with separate tents. Please help me out on this.

[FScouter]

"I have heard this, but I've not found the source for it."

 

That is a very common occurance in Scouting, particularly on internet chat forums. You can drive yourself nuts looking for substantiation.