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The Official Chain of Command?


MichaelOA

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I guess as a matter of reflection, How is the Chain of Command used?

 

The Troop is on a Campout, you arrive at the site. Does anybody need to tell the scouts to get the equipment out of the vehicles? The PLC determines where the gear will go and where the patrol campsitess will be, (300 feet away from any other patrol I am sure :)) And the patrols set up camp. The Patrol Leader doesnt have to bark orders because the boy know what need be done. If its a first or second campout then perhaps helpful suggestions are required but one neednt come across like Sgt Frank Rock of Easy Company to get things done. Then after Camp is set up, the already worked on Duty Roster is posted and everyone knows what their reponsibilities are. No one should have to be telling anyone what to do. Ok, that may be out in Fantasy land, but thats how its supposed to work.

 

At meetings, the PLC has a plan, its run according to the plan, who needs to tell anyone what to do? prompting may have to occur as people forget what to do, but really, does that require a chain of command? The PLC have developed the program, the patrol leaders know the schedule, the SPL with the Scoutmaster keep the troop on track.

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If the dynamics of what one wishes to develop in a group is one person dictating, commanding, and directing the work while the rest obediently follow along, then chain of command will work. Each level down dictates the top most decider in the group and everyone is of the same mind and follows the same course of action.

 

On the other hand if one wants to build a teamwork type of group, the commander/dictator dynamic doesn't apply anymore.

 

A top-down command style where a leader dictates to subordinants is reversed, it is the member groups supported by assisting experts that facilitate the wellbeing of the membership.

 

Maybe this is why the BSA doesn't have an "Official Chain of Command" is because it isn't supposed to be designed to have one.

 

Stosh

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"Requirements for JASM are set by your unit. JASM is often a position taken by former SPLs. In most units, JASM is a position appointed by the SM." - Beavah

 

I contacted my scoutmaster about this, he told me that according to the official boyscout website that you need to be 16 years old, I told him that scouter.com told me that the troop decides he just told me that since scouter.com isn't official it doesn't matter, so I was wondering, if when you said requirements you meant rank, or is there no age restriction?

 

(Instead he wants me to be a Troop Guide. What does a Troop Guide really do? Our last one before moving did absolutely nothing.)(This message has been edited by MichaelOA)

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MichaelOA,

 

If you have the desire to direct, command, lead and enjoy the prestige of a cool patch, go for JASM. If you want to sink your teeth into a worthwhile opportunity of self-growth, go with TG. View it as a "Den Chief"/Cheerleader/Parent-on-site for the new boys. You will be the hands-on caregiver, assistance source, guide, helper and overall looked up to scout of the troop by all the new boys. You'll be there to help them get oriented to scout life and be there to offer a listening ear when things go awry for them. You will be the go-to scout when they need help, understanding, or someone to simply care. You're the kind of - "parent" that will help them through homesickness at camp and to cheer them on when they take their first swim test at camp. You are the scout everyone wants to be, the one that helps his buddies transition from Cubbing to Scouting. Troop Guide is nothing more than what the title indicates.

 

If you don't think you have that basic understanding/drive inside of you to really care for the new boys, I'd pick a different POR. In my troop my best scout is the TG. I don't trust my boys with anyone but the best.

 

Stosh

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Your mistake Michael was in thinking that anything posted on Scouter.com or any unofficial website is accurate simply because it is on the internet.

 

Posts on scouter.com do not determine what the Scouting program or its elements are. It is an open forum where anyone can post anything regardless of its accuracy. You need to develop a better personal filter.

 

One thing that will aid you is that the BSA makes several resources available to you so that you can know and learn the actual elements of the BSA programs.

 

Your scoutmaster was right, and who ever said that the the Scoutmaster chooses the JASM was incorrect according to the official program of the BSA.

 

If you look in your own Boy Scout Handbook it will tell you that the JASM is 16 or 17 years old.

 

If you look in the Senior Patrol Leader Handbook or the Scoutmaster Handbook you will find that the SPL must be at least 16 years old and is appointed by the Senior Patrol Leader (with the advice and consent of the Scoutmaster).

 

You will get far more accurate information from the readily available resources of the BSA, including your own Handbook, then you will find from ANY Internet forum.

 

 

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Well, I can do both PORs very well, my situation is this:

I want to be the JASM IF I can, but my SM says that according to the official word of the BSA I must be at the age of 16, I currently am not (15). If I could not do JASM, I offered doing the position of Troop Guide, since it still seemed to be a leadership position, our previous Troop Guide disassociated himself from the younger scouts, and I am currently our most "qualified" scout in our troop. So Troop Guide is fine by me, I would enjoy it- but what I want to do most is JASM. I tried looking on scouting.com but I cant find anything about JASM requirements. If someone could help direct me to them I would greatly appreciate it. What I love doing is leading, I'm good at it, and it's fun.

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Yah, MichaelOA, it's hard for any of us to give yeh advice on a POR by remote, eh? Too much depends on how your troop works, whether TG or JASM makes the most sense for yeh.

 

I figured you for older based on 3 years as SPL, but I wasn't leadin' you astray. In most units, JASM is done as a SM appointment rather than an SPL appointment. Life in da real world of troops doesn't always match what gets printed in our handbooks, eh? BobWhite and your SM are right, though, da SM Handbook advises the JASM position be used for a strong leader 16 or older. If your SM isn't comfortable with usin' you in that position as a 15 year old, TG is a good option if your unit really uses one.

 

A TG is typically used if a troop puts all of its new boys together in a New Scout Patrol. You sort of become the "den chief" for the first year boys - the older scout who helps guide the new scout Patrol Leader and teach/help the new boys have a good start in Scouting. Troop Guides are often the guys most responsible for the long-term health of the troop, because more than anyone else you make sure the new guys learn and have fun and are "brought up right." In many ways you are the "functional" patrol leader for the NSP because those lads aren't really ready to be thrust into leadership.

 

If your troop runs more open or mixed-age patrols then a Troop Guide might not be used at all (like you mention), or might be an older scout who keeps track of all the first year boys and helps each PL work with his youngest members. Yeh might do some instructional stuff like Tenderfoot skills just for first year boys.

 

Just depends on how you're set up. There's also da option of a SM-assigned leadership project until yeh turn 16. That project can include doin' JASM-like things. ;) Includin' trying to help da troop move toward more independent patrols and service-leadership from chain-of-command.

 

There's a caution, though. If your SM hasn't had JASMs in the past he/she might not have figured out how to use the position well. Some SMs and ASMs have a hard time treatin' young folks as fellow ASMs. If in the end yeh go that route, I think yeh want to be sure to work out what your role will be and what you'll lead.

 

Time to have a conference with your Scoutmaster and talk about these things, eh? And with your ASPL. As a friend he might have good insight into where you can best help da troop when he starts as SPL. Our friends often see our strengths and interests better than we do, eh?

 

Good luck with it!

 

Beavah(This message has been edited by Beavah)

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again Michael, The requirement for Junior assistant Scoutmaster is t be at least 16 years old and to be selected for the position by the Senior Patrol Leader (with the advice and consent of the Scoutmaster).

 

Since you are not eligible for that position because you do not meet the age requiremennt teh perhaps you should consider the Troop Guide position. It is unfortunate that your Scoutmaster is making that decision rather than the SPL.

 

You role as Troop Guide is to work with the First Year scouts, helping them to learn the basic skills of Tenderfoot to First Class and teaching them some basic leadership skills and troop operations so that at the end of the first year they will be prepared to either become an experienced patrol under their own leadership or to be absorbed in to existing experienced patrols.

 

It is a very important role in a growing troop and one worthy of your consideration.

 

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There is no one in the troop more powerful than the Troop Guide in the troop life of a new scout. A good one will help these new boys make the leap from cub scouts to boy scouts with relatively little pain. A bad one can be the cause of new boys leaving the troop and maybe leaving scouts all together, even if the rest of the troop program is solid. A great one can help make the new scout patrol the strongest patrol in the troop, one where all the members really strive to help each other and learn everything they can to become stronger scouts. A great TG walks on water in the eyes of "his" patrol of new scouts, who will want to be just like him in years to come.

 

One of the nicest Eagle ceremonies I've been to was for a young man who served for a year as a TG. Every boy who had been in "his" patrol attended his ceremony and played a part in it. The following year, recruitment for the troop doubled and parents whom no one in the troop had ever met, said they wanted their sons to join that troop because they'd heard about that "wonderful older boy" who served as a TG. No kidding.

 

Go for it - Troop Guide is a great position for an older scout who cares about the future of his troop, and about sharing the fun of scouting with new boys.

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Yah, I dunno MichaelOA. If yeh start talkin' like me at school in California, yeh best be careful. Women love a man with a charmin' accent! ;)

 

Here's another thought to put in your head and bake.

 

What's your troop doin' high-adventure-wise? You seem like a mid-sized, young, but growing unit. That'd be about the perfect time to take some of the capable and mature 13-and-up guys and start thinkin' bigger. Pushin' your boundaries doin' some longer-term adventures would test your leadership skills and also really improve da skills of your troop POR's and older PLs.

 

You might want to consider a position as "founding" Venture Patrol Leader. How about leadin' a week of climbing at Joshua Tree or Red Rocks (Las Vegas)? Or a couple weeks learnin' to whitewater raft and kayak on the American? Glacier travel and mountaineering on Shasta? Seems like that might be right up your alley, eh?

 

The added bonus is that if yeh do those things with an eye to learning and getting good at them rather than just "experiencing" them as a guided tour, you'll bring those skills back to da troop, eh? Teachin' the youth and adults whitewater safety, or climbin', etc. Strong, skilled older scouts make for a strong troop, eh?

 

Might be a good option for you to consider.

 

Beavah

 

 

 

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I'll look into the high adventure thing, currently our troop doesn't do any of that, I only get to do that kind of stuff at summer camp :p. Starting a venture crew or patrol would be nice, but right now we aren't exactly the biggest troop, and most of our scouts are younger. So maybe in a year or two. Our troop is only 4ish years old :p I was actually one of the first three boys in the beginning and sadly the only one left, one moved and one lost interest in scouting. Thanks for all the tips everyone, and goodnight :p

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If you look in the Senior Patrol Leader Handbook or the Scoutmaster Handbook you will find that the SPL must be at least 16 years old and is appointed by the Senior Patrol Leader (with the advice and consent of the Scoutmaster).

 

You did mean the JASM must be 16 years old, didn't you Bob?

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