Kids going solo - policy/guideline issues

[Beavah]

 

Yah, this is da spot for folks who want to talk about G2SS interpretations and policy/legal/etc. issues over adult-less meetings, hikes, outings and whatnot by patrols.

 

See the parent thread if yeh want to talk about the learning/youth leadership/patrol method merits or demerits of such adult-free activities.

 

B

 

 

[OldGreyEagle]

As I understand it, Patrol outings have been a staple of the BSA since way back. The patrol comes up with a plan, the scoutmaster approves it and kids execute it, alone even

[hotdesk]

The Scoutmaster Handbook explains to a Scoutmaster that patrols can do Patrol Activities without adult support. HOWEVER, it does let him know if that he is not comfortable with the planning and detail process that he may either suggest to the patrol that they do better or that they find 2 adults.

[FScouter]

Yeah, patrol outings have always been a part of the "BSA Program". It's a reflection on the Scoutmaster if a patrols are not actually DOING patrol activities. Part of the SM job is to train boy leaders such that solo patrol activities can happen without undue adult anxiety. There likely are troops when the adults discourage or refuse to allow patrol activites. That would be a good example of a troop discarding part of what BSA recommends and doing their own thing instead.

[Bob White]

In my post in the other thread on this same topic I explain how we promoted and guided scouts into Patrol activities.

 

It is not a matter of CAN patrols do them. They can, in fact as others have pointed out is has been a specific element of scouting since DAY 1, it is a question of DOES the adult leadership know and understand this element, and do they make sure the scouts have the opportunity to grow in skil and maturity through the Patrol Method.

 

I grimace when a scout leader says "my scouts are not ready or able to do activities on there own." What they do not realize is that what they are saying is "the adult leaders of our troop have not seen to the development of the scouts we are supposed to be serving".

 

If you have scouts who have been under your mentoring for YEARS and yet you believe they do have the skills and maturity to be left alone without and adult, then you have been doing things very, very, wrong.

 

[insanescouter]

Personally I do not know how comfortable I would be letting a patrol do something over night on their own ... however a day event I would be fine with ... in the right situations I guess I would personally be ok with a patrol doing even overnight activity ... but I am also thankful I do not have to put in more thought then this as I will never have to make that call in my current position (troop paper pusher ).

 

 

Scott Robertson

http://insanescouter.org

Helping leaders one resource at a time....

[Eagledad]

>>I grimace when a scout leader says "my scouts are not ready or able to do activities on there own." What they do not realize is that what they are saying is "the adult leaders of our troop have not seen to the development of the scouts we are supposed to be serving".

[Bob White]

"It is the ones who think they already know it all and refuse to budge forward that make the program more difficult."

 

Perhaps, but does that include people who know a lot about what they are doing and have successful units that maintain youth member until they age out, and have scouts with high skill levels and advancement?

Or just the Scouters who think they know it all but complain about the kids not being interested, the parents not being what they should be, and the handbook being awful, and the uniform not being what they want. and professionals not doing their jobs etc. etc. stc...

 

There isn't anything wrong with knowing what your doing when it's the right thing to do is there? Because I know a lot of scout leaders who understand the program and know an awful lot about what they are doing and do it very, very, well. Certainly they are not in need of a good 'budging' as others might be?

[Beavah]

Are yeh really thinking those are two different groups, BobWhite?

 

Because in my experience they certainly aren't.

 

In fact, da best unit leaders I know - the ones whose boys (and girls) have high skills, who age out of the program only to become assistant unit leaders, who have reasonable and meaningful advancement, etc. - those are da folks who are often most critical of weaknesses in BSA structure or programmin', eh?

 

Because those are the folks who care the most.

 

Beavah

 

[Bob White]

do not confuse complaining about scouting with leadership ability

 

With only 29% having attended basic training it would be mathematically impossible for the ones who by your definition "care" to not outnumber those who understand and use the program.

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Venividi]

I suppose that depends on what that 29% represents. Is it that 29% of units have no trained leaders, or 29% of leaders that are untrained? the two are not equal

[Stosh]

It is my opinion that we do not expect more than the normal for our boys. I recently attended an Eagle BOR for a scout that had finished on time, had 21 MB's and had attended no other summer camp other than the council camp, and never had gone on any high adventure trips nor attended the Jamboree. He had covered his bases, but had never been give the opportunity to really apply what he was learning.

 

He did his requirements and one can't add more than just what is spelled out in the book.

 

Sorry, I don't buy that for one moment. If one does not empower these boys to be leaders, there's no amount of learning that will make them so.

 

Stosh

[Bob White]

jblake47

Since when was leaving the program as a leader the Mission of Scouting? How does one coach a team if they do not know what the goal of the game is?

 

Venividi,

The 29% represents the percentage of direct contact leaders currently in units that have completed BASIC training for their position according to recent training figures.

[Beavah]

The Boy Scouts of America will prepare every eligible youth in America to become a responsible, participating citizen and leader who is guided by the Scout Oath and Law. - Vision Statement, Boy Scouts of America

[Bob White]

BSA Mission Statement

"The mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law.

 

Remember there is a difference between Vision and Mission. The vision of Scouting is a dream that we would all like to see happen but is unattainable. We will never reach "every eligible youth in America" we will reach those who join scouting and perhaps a few more, but you know as well as I do that to reach "every eligble youth" is not actually attainable, uit is a vision, a dream, a hope, a desire. Buit the Mission is why the BSA exists.

 

'The Mission is directly effected by using the Methods of scouting to reach the Aims of Scouting. Methods, Aims, Mission are the How we do, What we do, and Why we do of Scouting.'

(BSA New Leader Essentials)

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)