The role of the PLC

[Bob White]

Lisabob asked a great question about the role of the PLC in the First Class Emphasis Program. Other than understanding that it is a separate program level for first year scouts the PLC has very little to do with it.

 

Nor should they since it is not the PLCs Role to program Patrol functions. The PLC should not decide what the Regular Patrols learn, or what the Venture Patrol does for their activities.

 

Think of the PLC as a communication and coordination hub with the SPL in the Center and the various patrols are individual spokes which are all interconnected through the SPL at the center and around the rim to each other.

 

Would you want the New Scout Patrol telling the Venture Patrol what to do, or vice versa? Of course not. The PLC is where representatives of the three program levels share information and coordate their efforts under the guidance of the Senior Patrol Leader.

 

The program for First Class Emphasis and the New Scout Patrol's program is in the hands of the Assistant Scoutmaster for New Scout Patrols and the Troop Guide(s).

 

 

[fgoodwin]

Welcome back, Bob.

[Stosh]

I see the PLC as the "committee" of PL's that relate and coordinate intra-patrol activities. This discussion is facilitated and supported by the SPL. This is the place where decisions are announced by the PL's in regards to what their patrols have decided to do. If all the patrols have decided on attending the spring camporee, they relay this information to the PLC where the details and logistics for such an event are assigned to the various troop-wide POR's, i.e. QM, Chap Aide, scribe, etc. It is up to the SPL to organize his POR people to make the most efficient use of them in their support of the PL's.

 

I see the PLC as the #1 communication tool for the PL's and their support staff of troop-wide POR's. Decisions are made by the patrols and it's up to the PLC to assist in making it happen.

 

Stosh(This message has been edited by jblake47)

[Lisabob]

While it may or may not be what others do in their PLCs, our troop's PLC takes a large hand in planning monthly troop activities. What I was thinking about when I wrote that I didn't know what role the PLC would have in the first class plan that our new-ish SM is going to roll out, what I was thinking was that if the plan calls for new scouts to be presented with skill X that month, then it would be helpful if the PLC was aware of that so they could plan some time for new scouts to work on that skill (if they desire to do so) at that month's camp out. This is the way our troop works. It might not be how others do, but in the capacity that I've described, yes I do think the PLC does, or should, have a role to play in implementing a FCFY program.

[Its Me]

 

Bob White, the Program Features outlines for the PLC, at most the exact events for a particular month's focus at minimum the method to plan for a month's worth of activities. All these monthly Features include new scout development. The way you describe the system the the New Scout patrol in an inferior patrol not allowed at the table. That's just wrong.

 

 

Plus the whole troop and especially the older scout will have a hand in training the new scouts in the skills they need for advancement. Again your description sounds like an adult does all the training thus depriving the older scout of a prime opportunity to demonstrate scout skills, leadership, planning and communication skills.

 

[Bob White]

I am sorry if I gave you that perception. I certainly never said that, and I certainly do not believe that. The Temporary Patrol Leader of the New Scout Patrol and the Troop Guide for that Patrol are both voting members of the Troop Leader Council. They are equals among the other patrol leaders. Attending and particpating in the PLC is one of the ways that the New Scouts are trained in Troop operations as part of the first step in their leadership training.

 

Older Scouts certainly can have a role in training New Scouts as appropriate situations arise, nowhere have I seen anyone suggest that they could not.

 

The PLC would be a great place for the Troop Guide to share the next month's program plan for the New Scout Patrol with the PLC and ask the other Patrol Leaders if they had a Scout who they felt was capable of helping to instruct for a skill or skills.

 

At no point did I say or suggest that only the ASM taught or tested the skills. I said they were responsible for developing and administering the plan.

 

These should not be foriegn concepts to any adult troop leader. These are all taught in the Scoutmaster/ Assistant Scoutmaster Leader Specific Basic Training course.

[Beavah]

Yah, that's one way to structure it, eh?

 

Of course, there's no such thing as a "Temporary Patrol Leader"

 

What Lisabob was askin', and what all good SM's ask, is "What is the role of the PLC going to be in our vision for a FCFY effort?" Many troops, but not all, have a NSP. Some that do have a NSP phase their new scouts into regular patrols after 3-6 months, some don't.

 

Some may adopt a tightly organized, ASM/TG run program parallel to WDL/DC and very independent from the "regular" troop program. That can be very comfortable and fun for kids crossin' over, and familiar to parents.

 

Some may do what Lisabob's troop might consider, which is have the PLC involved in more detailed planning of troop outings, including the activities that support new scouts. That might introduce more youth-run influence and less "organization", but be a faster introduction to other aspects of Boy Scouting.

 

and on and on...

 

Beavah

 

 

[Bob White]

Actually Beavah there is.

 

As part of the New Scout Patrol program the scouts rotate through the position of Patrol Leader so that each scout attends a PLC and sees how a troop administration is designed. That is why the Troop Guide is a PLC member as well, so that they can guide each scout through the PLC process. It also gives each scout an opportunity to learn and practice some basic Scout leadership skills and gives them an understanding of what will be expected of them in the future should they accept a leadership skill. As far as planning what goes on within a Patrol, the PLC does not determine any patrol's program or activity.

 

Nowhere in the BSA program, or any adult or youth leadership training, is it taught that the PLC has that responsibility. Patrols are individual units under the leadership of their own elected Patrol Leader.

 

This ties into the conversation of who is the SPL in charge of...No one.

 

"Some that do have a NSP phase their new scouts into regular patrols after 3-6 months, some don't."

 

Actually you are very close to what the BSA program says. The entir passage is as follows.

 

"The New Scouts function together as a patrol for the first year in the troop, working toward their goal of becoming First Class rank. Some troops phase their new Scouts into regular Patrols after three to six months."

 

Kinda adds a whole new dimension doesn't it?

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[FScouter]

I don't understand that smiley face thingy? Does that mean youre kidding or telling a joke or what. Unless patrol leaders are "permanent" they must be "temporary"? Or maybe that is just a reference to the (misguided?) Scoutmaster Handbook which advises that patrol leader elections be held more frequently than twice a year in a new Scout patrol, so as to allow more boys a chance to take a shot at it and get familiar with the concept.

[Oak Tree]

The smiley face was invented at Carnegie Mellon University in 1982. It was originally intended to indicate that a statement should not be taken literally - that it is a joke. Over time, though, the smiley face has also come to indicate that the statement is being made in a friendly fashion. Thus, I took the smiley face here to mean that while Beavah's statement that there is no official position titled "Temporary Patrol Leader", it was not something he intended to argue about. More of a friendly tweak to Bob White who normally seems to be very precise about his terminology.

 

Now of course, all patrol leaders are temporary. And some are more temporary than others. But there is no POR patch that says "Temporary Patrol Leader", while there is one that says "Troop Guide." And while The Scoutmaster Handbook does say you could hold more frequent elections, it doesn't indicate that makes the patrol leader into any special type of patrol leader. He's just as real as any other patrol leader, as far as I can tell from the wording.

 

And of course, if I wanted to further tweak Bob White, I could point out that the language of Scouting says not to capitalize the terms "patrol leader" or "patrol" and that there is nothing officially called the "Troop Leader Council". :-)

[Bob White]

My intend was to differentiate the term in office of the NSP patrol leader as compared to the other Pls. Your are correct all Pls are temporary, some more than others as is the case in the NSP. TLC is an older term that was used for many years sorry if my terms slipped back a few years. Thanks for the tweak.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Beavah]

As part of the New Scout Patrol program the scouts rotate through the position of Patrol Leader so that each scout attends a PLC and sees how a troop administration is designed.

 

This is a really fascinatin' Scoutin' urban legend that seems to be particular to Scouter.Com. Leastways, I'd never heard of this permutation before readin' it here.

 

Certainly, it ain't the BSA's recommended program. In the BSA materials, a Patrol Leader in a NSP is a regular patrol leader. He is elected by his patrol members for a fixed term. Troops can choose to hold elections on any term they want, and might do 'em more frequently than every 6 months for NSP, but the boys are free to elect the same boy over and over. There ain't an adult-mandated "rotation" of PL.

 

Not that I'm against units doin' their own thing, mind. But I'd have a discussion with a SM considerin' that kind of tweak, because it takes boys some time in a position to learn the lay of the land before they can be successful or contribute. A rotation would tend to mess with that, eh? Particularly some folks suggestions of 1-2 month rotations seem pretty odd to me.

 

Kinda adds a whole new dimension doesn't it?

 

Yah, it does when yeh quote da full text, eh? Which I was doin'

 

Many troops have a New Scout Patrol for 11-year old boys who are just joining. [For the troops that do that] The new Scouts function as a patrol... etc.

 

Sort of like

 

The new Scout Patrol elects a patrol leader just as the other patrols do // Most troops select patrol leaders and other boy leaders twice a year, though a troop might want to hold elections more frequently in order to allow more boys a chance to lead, particularly in the new Scout Patrols.

 

Beavah

 

[And yah, F, da use of smillies is a way to convey "voice tone" and "facial expression", particularly when it's possible that the raw text might be interpreted in a harsher manner than what is intended, as is often the case when discussin' things online. Yeh gotta imagine a friend sittin' around a campfire and smilin' or winkin' or whatever. ]

 

 

[Beavah]

Anyway, the Smillie was because I didn't really intend to dicuss the rotation thing, I figured BW knew it was a tweak. We were more talkin' about how different programs envision PLC's and NSP.

 

The technique BobWhite describes places an ASM and a TG in charge of the whole NSP program. They create a tight, fun, advancement-focused set of activities, mostly autonomous from the rest of the troop. Some folks call this the "Webelos 3" model, because it's so close to the Webelos Den Leader/Den Chief running the same kind of tight, fun, advancement-focused set of activities. Just more emphasis on da Troop Guide than the Den Chief. I see it most in large troops. Kids and parents find it very "organized" and comfortable; just like cubs, they get lots of awards quickly. Retention rates are often high. Those are up-sides, o'course, there are also some down-sides. And yeh have to really choose ASM-NSP and TG for the right "personality." Weaker folks in these positions can do a lot of damage.

 

Da technique Lisabob describes is in my experience more common in medium-sized troops. There the PLC is actually planning the troop outing to incorporate the needs of various patrols. They're choosin' the highlight activity and campout for the month, rather than workin' off a pre-arranged New Scout progression. They might choose a troop monthly activity theme that doesn't easily mesh with a first-year advancement focus. The PLC also chooses skill instruction related to the monthly activity, the games at the meeting, and the interpatrol activity/competitions both in the meetings and outings. You know, just like they're taught to . To some extent, Program Helps/Woods Wisdom model this. If da troop goes dogsledding (like Lisabob's troop this year!), the NSP goes dogsledding with 'em. Even though there's no T21 mushing requirement. So a PLC has to be very much involved with selecting activities and such if they are to be stitched together for FCFY.

 

Troops like Eagledad's or some of da bigger troops in our council that don't use NSP rely on the PLs to teach their new scouts by example and in patrol activities along the way. Da notion of an adult introducin' a separate program for new boys wouldn't fit at all, eh? In these troops, PLC discussions about makin' sure outings were age and skill-appropriate for new scouts, and tips shared among patrol leaders for how to help out their new guys would be pretty normal. If they were to do a FCFY thing, it would very much be discussed among the PLC members, because they'd be da ones doin' it.

 

And then there's small troops that really function as one patrol, where da youth leaders/PLC will be intimately involved in plannin' for and helpin' their first year comrades.

 

Yah, and then there's all kinds of other combinations, eh? Before we even get into Chartered Org. differences and emphases.

 

So there's lots of different roles for a PLC in First Class Emphasis, if it's tried.

 

Scoutin' is a big, beautiful movement that puts questing kids together with adult friends. We gotta be careful not to put it in a box when it belongs in the wide-open world.

 

Beavah

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[FScouter]

Mr. Beavah sir, (smilely thingy) (winky thingy), I really take exception to your comments about the new Scout patrol. What Bob posted is straight out of the Scoutmaster Handbook. It is not a tweak and its not a personal made-up idea. Youd get farther swaying folks (at least this folk) to your point of view by promoting your own ideas. Tearing down others ideas and particularly BSA methods, and re-characterizing them as something ridiculous (like webelos 3) doesnt work at all for me. (winky, winky) If Scouting belongs as you say in the wide-open world surely youll tolerate a place for Scouting as described by BSA, no?

[Beavah]

Yah, Mr. F. Steady, man, steady!

 

What I described was the text straight out of the Scoutmaster's Handbook, the Patrol Leader's Handbook, and the Scoutmaster Specific Syllabus, eh? Ain't nothing in any of 'em that suggests or even hints at rotating NSP Patrol Leaders. NSP Patrol Leaders are supposed to be elected by their peers for a fixed term. There's an option for any patrol to have more frequent elections than the nominally recommended six months, eh?

 

So, sorry to say, if yeh pick up and read the materials, rotating NSP PL's is a tweak and a made-up idea. Might be a good one, too. I've never seen it tried so I wouldn't know. I'd support you or BW or anybody in givin' it a whirl if you'd really thought it out, considerin' both why the BSA doesn't suggest it and why yeh think it might get you to a good result. I certainly wouldn't call yeh "wrong" or "not doing Scouting" for using it.

 

The point was that All Four of the scenarios I described are BSA Scoutin'. Every one of 'em is "the program." I support the lot. I know good people in fine units that do each of the four and then some. They each have their upside and their challenges.

 

Personally, I don't think Webelos 3 is ridiculous at all. There's a lot of demand for it, and in some ways it's developmentally appropriate for pre-pubescent boys. Gets good retention and advancement figures, if yeh have the resource and da right sort of folks to run it. But it is what it is, eh? It's functionally identical to a webelos den, except yeh don't need each parent on the outing and the TG should be takin' more of the work than the den chief did. There's a good reason for usin' that technique - it's in the webelos program because it works if done well. And if it worked well for a lad at the end of January it's probably gonna still work well for the lad in mid-February after he's crossed a bridge . Major CO's make it a vital part of their young mens' program.

 

But if yeh want my preference, you know it already, eh? Eagledad and I feel very similar on the matter. I expect ScouterTerry, too, because of his close ties to Greenbar Bill. Everything else bein' equal, I'd steer folks to consider traditional Patrol Method scoutin', where younger boys learned primarily from bein' in patrols with older boys, and gradually moved up in rank and leadership within their own, permanent patrol.

 

That to me is the method that has really stood the test of time.

 

Beavah