Who is an SPL "in charge" of?

[Eagledad]

>>I dunno. That sounds to me like youth lead the program, eh? In fact, I'm not sure we could find a place in the SM Handbook that suggests otherwise.

[Beavah]

What would happen to a troop or pack if they were no adults Beavah?

 

I serve a bunch of units, eh? But let's keep this to troops and crews, not packs. We all know that the roles of adults in packs are different, eh? Ed's probably given yeh the answer you want - they wouldn't be able to recharter, sign tour permits, or go on troop outings under G2SS. Barry's probably given da real answer . Settin' those things aside...

 

In the most adult-run units, with the absence of adults the unit would collapse instantly.

 

In the most youth-run units, there might be some difficulty with keys to the meeting room and with paperwork or payment for camping fees, but yeh otherwise wouldn't see much difference. Gradually, over time, you'd see some degradation, both from parent inappropriate intervention and from just a touch of loss of ideas, gentle guidance, or an occasional push to meet a planning deadline or to do a better job of communication. Mostly, the kids would just miss havin' their friend SM White around to talk to at the campfire.

 

That's probably a good test of how well a unit is doin', eh? Shoot the adults, and see what happens.

 

I remember last spring I got a mid-Friday call from a local unit. SM's mother-in-law had died, ASM had been sent out of town on a business trip, no registered SSD/SA trained leaders available for a weekend canoe trip, but a few dads still committed, could I help? Sure.

 

I brought the signed check for the outfitter. Youth ran logistics. Youth ran safety (I got assigned to canoe with a non-swimmer adult). Youth ran instruction, not with lesson plans and classes, but each skilled youth givin' pointers to a younger lad here and there as the need arose, and the younger lads watchin' the older ones with great admiration, soakin' things up.

 

Youth ran camp while I kept the dads entertained cookin' chili. I got to tell stories in the evenin' while some of the PL's sat a ways away plannin' some other upcoming event. After the PL's got da young ones to bed they planned a venture patrol climbing gym trip (adultless), includin' meetin' at somebody's house to teach two new guys CoS, knots, and belays before goin' to da gym.

 

The adults did go away, eh? Didn't faze the lads in the least. I reckon that's why da SM Handbook says what it does, eh? If we keep that vision in mind, then we'll do a bang-up job of makin' boys into self-confident, independent learners and fine young men.

 

What would happen with no adults in da troop you were affiliated with, BobWhite? Would they have been able to clean up a cabin if no adults were there to ask leading questions? If so, why would you ask them? If not, what might you do differently to improve?

 

Beavah(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[evmori]

So then the only need you see for having adults is to satisfy the charter requirements. Interesting.

 

Not what I said.

 

Based on the way the units are chartered, no adults = no unit. And if there is no unit then there is no one to be in charge of so no need for an SPL!

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Stosh]

In my WB patrol there was a gentleman with 65+ years in scouting who did mention that there were often scout troops without any adult leadership. He said at one point his troop went two years without any adults. He said the troop ran just fine until the council got them a new SM.

[Beavah]

Yah, good point jblake. Dat was true around our area, too. Especially durin' WW2 and Korea when a fair number of SM's shipped out. Older dinosaurs than me recount tales of hiking 10 miles out of town and settin' up camp on their own for the summer. An adult would come out and look in on 'em about once a week, and they'd have to hike in to get food on a fairly regular basis. But that was it, eh?

 

Beavah

 

[Stosh]

I wonder how many SM's who believe they run a boy-led, patrol-method, troop would actually allow a patrol of boys go off for a weekend without the two-deep leadership? I know for a fact that even our scout camp wouldn't allow them to come for the weekend and camp without the 2 deep-leadership.

 

I wonder if I would be going too far out on a limb to think that maybe the functional leadership of the boys of the BSA program isn't sufficient to allow for this possibility even though the lip-service is given to it?

 

For those who would allow it in certain circumstances, what limitations would be placed on these boys or would they be allowed to actually lead themselves and make their own decisions for the weekend?

 

Stosh

[Hiromi]

Hiya fellas,

 

I think a good compromise might be to have separate sites out of eye or ear shot but close enough to be there if there is any trouble. THen a lot of issues such as transportaion, being able to travel to better road-trip distanced parks, saftey, and parental concerns are met to a degree.

 

You can even invite each other over for camp visits- say the scouts cook a meal for the ADults, and vice versa. And then back to your ownn camp sites.

 

FWIW

 

Pappy

[Eagledad]

>>I think a good compromise........

[Bob White]

As a Scoutmaster we rarely camped as a troop, each patrol had they own sitye (6) and the adults had a separate site. Once a patrol had their camp site selected they would come get the SPL and show them where their site was. Later that night the SPL would take me on a tour to show me where they were. the Scouts always knew where to find the adult's site and my tent specifically in case of an emergency.

 

On the few occasions when we were in the same area such as a group campground I was always very pleased that we looked nothing like other troops, when everyone else pitched tents in a circle or square pattern (to look pretty)the troop I served were in patrol clusters with everyone pitching their tent facing down wind (you get better air circulation through the tent and better structural stability in a strong wind). They had better outdoor skills than the adults that "RAN" the other troops and would "TELL" scouts where to put their tents.

 

the SPL and ASPL ate with the adults (so that we could do some subtle coaching and counseling as we ate) or they ate by invitation with a patrol. Onm accasion patrols would invite an adult or adults to eat with them, usually to either discuss an issue or to show off a new recipe.

 

BW