When I disagree with PLC decisions

[allangr1024]

I became SM in April, and made some changes to the troop operation. I felt that the youth leadership positions were not being used to their potential, since most decisions were being made by the adults. I held a campout planning session where I had the boys make the choices of where to go and what to do on outings. I put 20 choices up on a board for camping spots and 20 choices of campout activities (fishing, skiing, backpacking, ect.) and at the end the boys put together a camping schedule for the year. I then told them that the PLC could change the schedule if an opportunity came up for something they wanted to do instead. They have changed it twice so far. I try to stay out of the decisions they make, mostly commenting on advantages and disadvantages of the choices they make.

 

Our outing for April 08 is set for going to the council camporee at the council camp. This is held every four years in our council, and I have enjoyed it in the past. The boys on the PLC, however, would like to go instead to watch NASCAR on their Scout Day down in the Dallas area. The troop has done this twice in the past, some loving it and some hating it. The adults are also split between loving and hating the event.

 

I am not a fan of the event, although I have not gone in the past. I hate to see a prime camping month outing not used for camping. April here is perfect weather, not to hot or cold, and before the bugs and poison ivy come out in force. It is the perfect time to do the scouting requirements where you find signs of animals, and where you learn to identify trees and plants.

 

I am in a quandary now. If the PLC votes at its next meeting to go to the NASCAR event, then they will be exercising their leadership prerogatives, which I am happy for them to do. I will not be happy because we will be missing out on camping, and the council camporee, which I think is important to go to. Oh, this commitment to youth leadership. What shall I do?

 

[Beavah]

Yeh know the answer.

 

If they're ready to lead, let 'em lead. If they're not, then yeh need to work on your Troop Leader Training plan instead of messin' around with their April outing schedule!

 

B(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[MarkS]

It sounds to me that the process is working just fine. If it were me, as long as we discuss the advantages and disadvantages of the activities they're deciding on and there are no violations of scouting policy with either activity, I'd let the boys lead and choose the activity.

 

However, it's important for SMs to make sure that the members of PLC, especially PLs, understand thay are making decisions based on the desires of and/or the benefit of their patrol members and troop and not personal agendas. I think if you do that, you've done your job. Perhaps a course of action would be to ask your SPL to have the PLs talk about the activity choices with their patrols and find out what the patrol members want to do before the PLC makes a decision.

 

I also think that the goal should be to come to a consensus, not vote. Voting should be a last resort when a consensus can not be achieved in a timely manner.(This message has been edited by MarkS)

[Its Me]

 

Take earplugs.

 

Next year fix the calendar at the annual planning event. If you don't and allow changes at every PLC meeting then you have a month-month calendar. You can't plan meetings and advancements oportunities at campouts on a month to month basis.

 

At least they are planning for an event 5 months down the road. That shows initiative.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[OldGreyEagle]

During April 2008, on a Monday, inevitably someone will ask a Troop member what they did over the week end. The response can be one of the following:

 

"I went with the Troop to the NASCAR event, it was so cool!"

 

or

 

"The troop wanted to go to the NASCAR event, but the PITA Scoutmaster wanted to go to the council camporee so we went there"

 

(Actually the second response will probably be shortended to "Nuttin")

 

Which reponse is better?

 

BTW there is no rule every scout must attend every event. Non-NASCAR people (such as myself) dont have to elect to go. Participation at the event would be an indicator if the event should be scheduled again next year, or perhaps a few break would be best, either way its the PLC's move

[MarkS]

Also... BTW...

 

At our annual planning conference, rather than providing the boys with a of ideas on a board we let them put the list together.

 

Starting with a list of "wants" from their patrols, the boys brainstorm and come up with a list of ideas... anything goes, no comments, just get it on the board. After the SM/SAs scratch off skydiving and the demolition derby (they put them up every year, the rascals) and other things that violate BSA guidelines, the boys prioritize them. From the prioritized list they prepare a program calendar coordinating troop activities with those of the council, district, and OA (that we know about). Finally, after the calendar is set, we estimate out how much each activity will cost. From there we figure out what is needed to raise funds to pay for the activity. If it's more than they want to do, we iteratively go back and forth between estimating cost and planning fundraising until we have a final program plan and a budget plan to pay for it.(This message has been edited by MarkS)

[dan]

How about suggesting that they find a place to camp close to the event. The ones that want to go watch cars go round and round can the others can stay at camp and camp. And the ones that go to the races can spend a night or 2 camping.

 

Do you get some type of discounts for the scouts and leaders for scout day? Nascar races are not cheap.(This message has been edited by dan)

[allangr1024]

On scout day at NASCAR the cost is 8 to 10 dollars per head if you come in uniform. The CC who led the trip last year (SM in transition) said the thing the boys liked best was looking at the booths in the parking lot, kind of a NASCAR bizzare. The race was not that interesting to the boys (Sez he).

 

Thanks for the responses. BTW, how do you guys handle transportation costs for long trips. Do you do special fundraising, or make the boys pay the drivers something extra, or just let the drivers "donate" their gas?

 

 

[Ohio_Scouter]

We factor the transportation costs into the total price of the trip. For example, if we have 20 people attending the event, and we estimate that the total fuel will cost $100.00, we divide the total fuel cost by the number of attendees ($100 / 20 = $5.00) to compute a per person fuel cost and then add that to the other per person costs of the event, like food costs, camping fees, etc.

[local1400]

It is great the PLC is taking charge and planning. That tells me the system is working like it should. But what do you do with the boys who want to camp instead of watch cars going in circles? Is the unit big enough to engage in two functions separately and simultaneously? It is possible, and I have seen it done before, that the troop splits into patrols for different events!

[Beavah]

After the SM/SAs scratch off skydiving and the demolition derby (they put them up every year, the rascals)

 

Why scratch 'em out, eh?

 

Let the boys try to plan them. The cost and the fact that no establishment will take an under-18-year-old will dissuade them on their own. And yeh might just end up with a fun campout out at the skydiving airstrip where those guys demonstrate all kinds of cool stuff.

 

B

 

[BrentAllen]

Why not do both? If your Troop is large enough, and the group is split on the idea, offer both activities.

[AvidSM]

Yes, it's the PLC that makes the decisions (mine have also made some that I don't agree with). But, it's the Scoutmaster's job as an advisor to provide options and give weight to each. NASCAR is fun, but how will going there help meet the goals of the Troop? How is the Troop supposed to meet it's one camping trip per month goal? Or, provide the opportunity for boys to complete advancement requirements?

 

I would advise the PLC that they can make any decision they want, but if they pick fun activities every month instead of camping then they are not delivering a quality program. I'd tell them, "We're going to the NASCAR event, that's fine, but what's the camping trip for this month?" Tell them what they are going to be missing out on by not attending the Council camporee. And that they need to schedule a camping trip to replace it, one in which THEY have to come up with the program.

 

The boys make the decisions, but it's within the framework of the Troop's scouting program. You, as the Scoutmaster set down that framework for them. The BSA's rules and regs are part of that, G2SS on so on, and the goals of the troop also make up this framework.

 

If something does not fit within this program, you simply say, "That's not an option."

 

 

[eolesen]

If you do decide to go to NASCAR, Longhorn Council has a small camp (Hills 'N Hollows) just a few miles up the road from Texas Motor Speedway.

 

http://www.longhorncouncil.org/maps/camp_maps/hills_and_hollows.htm

 

If the PLC chooses Nascar, and it's workable in terms of financial and adult support, you will cause far more damage in veto'ing their decision.

 

I agree with a couple other folks -- try to do both, even if they're the same weekend.

(This message has been edited by eolesen)(This message has been edited by eolesen)

[MarkS]

MarkS said, "After the SM/SAs scratch off skydiving and the demolition derby (they put them up every year, the rascals)"

 

Beavah said, "Why scratch 'em out, eh?"

 

They know that BSA policy prohibits these activities. They put them up mostly as an annual joke. Do like the idea about camping at the airstrip to see a skydiving demo. Although I suspect the boys would rather have a campout with an activity the can do, rather than watch.