POR Patches

[oldsm]

This should be a simple question, but I've not found an "authoritative" answer.

 

Do PATROL scribes and quartermasters wear POR patches on their uniforms?

 

For troop positions, it's obvious. For patrol positions, not so much.

 

My understanding of the patrol positions is that they're basically training positions for later troop appointment and, since they don't count for Star-Life-Eagle PORs, they probably should not wear the patches. Besides, it can be confusing to see 4 or 5 people all running around with Scriber or QM patches.

 

What are your practices about patrol positions? Thanks in advance.

[local1400]

No. Patrol Scribe and QM "positions" are phantom POR and really serve no purpose.

[epalmer84]

No, there are no emblems for patrol level QM and scribe.

 

I will have to disagree with local1400; using PORs withing a patrol is a good thing. We don't use QM or scribe in patrols, but we do use a "grubmaster" selected by the patrol leader for each campout who is in charge of the food.

 

Ed

[evmori]

They could if you would like them to and I really don't see why they shouldn't. We have had this discussion before regarding Patrol POR's vs Troop POR's. Patrol POR's can be great entry-level POR's for younger Scouts.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Lisabob]

local1400, it all depends on how the patrol positions are used. From what I see in my son's troop, I'd agree that patrol scribe is an under-utilized position, but boy those patrol QMs get a work out.

 

But to respond to the original question - no, the patrol positions don't have their own patches.

[oldsm]

Perhaps the question wasn't clear. I know that there are no Patrol Scribe or Patrol QM patches. BUT...the "troop Scribe and QM patches don't specifically state "Troop Scribe" or "Troop Quartermaster"; hence, they COULD be used in patrol positions, too. The question really is: "SHOULD they be used in a patrol setting?"

[FScouter]

I would wonder what the troop scribe and troop quartermaster would think about 2 or 3 other kids running around wearing his patch.

[eolesen]

Should they be used?

 

Ask the boys. It's their program.

[frank10]

FS:" I would wonder what the troop scribe and troop quartermaster would think about 2 or 3 other kids running around wearing his patch. "

 

Might depend if he saw them as his staff or not... If they are his assistants, he might want it.

 

This has me thinking of how this relationship could work out great...

[evmori]

I would wonder what the troop scribe and troop quartermaster would think about 2 or 3 other kids running around wearing his patch.

 

I don't think Scribe & QM are designated as Troop or Patrol positions. A Patrol Leader isn't.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[local1400]

I will respond by saying I have only been involved with smaller troops (about 35 being the largest). Every troop I have served with has a Troop QM because the troop owned the equipment, not the individual patrols. The boys have never said "how 'bout Patrol Bugler, QM, Scribe, or Historian etc...". If the boys don't think it up, we don't force it down their throats. I will also say 90% of the boys are under 13 so finding maturity and responsibility enough to be a PL is hard enough without giving some Scout a POR that , what, serves only as a token position so we can check off his requirements? Our unit long ago before me has certain standards listed for each POR. Any boy who cannot commit loses his POR.

[acco40]

Every boy should have a position of some sort. Not all positions come with a "badge of office." Those that do include: SPL, ASPL, PL, APL, QM, Scribe, Chaplain's Aide, Bugler, Librarian, Historian, OA Rep, Den Chief, Instructor, Jr. SA and Troop Guide. Patrol positions such as Patrol QM, Patrol Scribe, Patrol Cheermaster, Patrol Grubmaster, etc. are positions of responsibility but unless it is a position okayed by the SM, they do not fill the POR requirement for Star, Life and Eagle.

 

With that out of the way, I would not suggest the boys wear a position badge if they did not hold that office and the QM badge, for example, is for the Troop QM. Not a big deal but just my thoughts.

[fgoodwin]

Our troop (over 100 families; about 40-50 boys active on any particular troop activity) uses patrol level scribes, QMs and CAs and those positions wear the patch and that duty qualifies for POR for Star, Life & Eagle.

 

Because our troop is so big, if we limited the PORs to a single QM for the entire troop, to a single CA for the entire troop, one scribe, etc. (in addition to the elected offices, of course) some boys might go five years without a POR and thus be disqualified from rank advancement.

 

I'm as much a supporter of following BSA policy to the letter as anybody, but in this case, I think what our troop is doing is in the best interest of the boys.

[Beavah]

Yah, fgoodwin beat me to it, eh?

 

Depends mostly on troop size, but also on troop operations.

 

Larger and more patrol-oriented troops really do have patrol equipment that's pretty extensive. In fact, IMHO dat's the proper way to do Patrol Method. There might not even be a troop QM.

 

That applies to other positions too, eh? The stronger the Patrol Method is in the troop, the more likely that the patrol-level position has more responsibility than a troop-level position. In a troop that operates mostly on Patrol Camping and activities, a PL should have more responsibility than an SPL. A patrol should grow its own Instructor(s). A patrol should have its own Historian/Photographer.

 

Let da patch (and the rank advancement recognition) go to wherever the real work is being done in your program.

 

Beavah

 

[eolesen]

Again... what do the boys want to do?

 

Do they want to have everyone feel as though they're not just participants, or do they want to reserve the patch for only those in POR's at the troop/PLC level?

 

Since it isn't defined, it's theirs to interpret.