Troop Guide Details

[kenk]

I have a few questions regarding how Troop Guides (TG) operate:

 

-Is the TG a member of the New-Scout patrol? (I think the answer is "no".)

 

-If the TG is not a member of the New-Scout patrol, are they a member of another regular patrol?

 

-Is the TG more like the SPL & ASPL - not really a member of any patrol?

 

-Who does the TG eat with on a campout?

 

-Who would the TG buddy-up with to sleep on a campout? I've read that the SPL & ASPL would typically buddy-up in a tent.

[Beavah]

Yah, kenk, different troops are all over da map on this, eh? Each troop kinda figures out a way that works for them.

 

No, the TG normally isn't considered a "member" of a NSP. But they might be "effectively" a member, and in a lot of ways they are really the PL at the start.

 

What "other patrol" a TG is a part of is very troop dependent. Some troops have an older boys/venture/senior/leadership corps patrol, and the TG is a part of that. In other (mixed-age patrol) troops, the TG stays a member of his "native" patrol (the one he entered when he left NSP). In still others, TG/JASM/SPL/ASPL might form a little mini-patrol, or might join the "adult patrol".

 

Same with who they eat with... could be with the NSP, could be with their "other" patrol, could be with the adults. Might start as eatin' with the NSP (for safety/instruction reasons), then move as the NSP's get more independent.

 

Sleepin' is similar. Buddyin' with a second TG is a good choice. Buddyin' with SPL/ASPL/JASM works OK. Sometimes, if there's a youngster who needs the support, buddyin' with one of the NSP boys might be a way to go, especially for an early-in-da-year campout. Sleepin' solo near-but-not-in the NSP also might be fine for an older boy TG.

 

Yeh gotta figure out your goals for NSP and how you want TG to work, and then pick a method that gets you there. If you try one and don't like how it worked out, switch and try a different one, eh?

 

Beavah

 

[Oak Tree]

What Beavah said.

 

Seriously, while I can give you the "official" answer, and I can tell you what our troop does, you should feel free to do what will work for your troop.

 

Here's what the Scoutmaster Handbook says.

 

The troop guide is both a leader and a "mentor" to the members of a new-Scout patrol. He is an older Scout, at least First Class in rank, who helps the patrol leader of a new-Scout patrol in much the same way that a Scoutmaster works with a senior patrol leader - providing direction, coaching, and support as determined by the skill level and morale of the new-Scout patrol. The troop guide is usually not a member of another patrol, but may participate in the high-adventure activities of a Venture patrol.

 

In our troop, he is not officially a member of the new-Scout patrol (or any patrol), but he is effectively a member of his new-Scout patrol. Ours eats with the new-Scout patrol. I'm not actually sure who they've buddied up to sleep with - we sometimes segment the sleeping areas by patrols, but not always, so our buddies aren't always strictly done by patrol. But even when we do segment the areas, we leave the buddying up to the boys and haven't had a problem yet, so while I'm surprised I don't remember, I'm not concerned.

[MarkS]

By the book and in our troop the TG, like the SPL and ASPL, are not part of a patrol. He's an older boy, so at the discretion of the SPL and who is actually attending a particular campout, he can either tent solo or with the SPL or ASPL (usually when both do not attend an outing) or a buddy from his home patrol. However, the SM/SAs and SPL/PLC (we) came to an agreement long ago that we prefer that boys in the NSP do not tent solo. So when an odd number of boys from the NSP go on a campout, the TG will tent with one of them (our tents have space for at most two boys).

 

We also have an agreement that the TG should eat with the NSP so he can teach and monitor the progress of their cooking skills. On the other hand, the SPL and ASPL, eat with the adult patrol. They've mastered the fundamentals of duty rosters and cooking. We'd rather that they focus on being the troop leaders during meal times instead of frying eggs.

[anarchist]

kenk...

 

troop guides...topic near and dear to my heart...personally think it is the most important position in the troop...

 

TG's are not members of the NSP they are mentors/teachers and examples for the newbies. TG's help deliver the program to the NSP. If they are not fit for the job NSP retention suffers and eventually so does the Troop.

 

generally, in our troop, they remain in their own patrols but for one year they are "on detail" and are members of the youth leadership cadre (green bars) and the PLC.

If their patrol has an activity that does not conflict with their duties they are free to participate.

 

In our troop we use at least two guides for each NSP. This gives our guides the freedom (with proper coordination and communication of course)to "miss" some events and still not leave the NSP "in the lurch". Taking some of the pressure off leads to less "guide failure" and more souting success!

 

TG eats with his/their NSP...one of their jobs is to teach outdoor cooking...works much better if the guides have to eat the "failures" along with the NSP...means fewer "meal failures".

 

TGs either buddie-up with other TG's or the ASPL who on occaision in our troop "acts" as a Troop Guide (as these scouts are under his supervision). Also when we camp as a troop, the SPL and the guides generally "flank" the NSP with a guide tent on one side and the SPL on the other...(noise and accident control). Our SPL generally is given the option of a solo bunk...his choise.

anarchist

[watercub]

Hey, that's a topic that's dear to my heart, too. I'm the ASM for New Scouts in my troop and part of that role is to serve as the mentor for the TG's and the Instructors.

 

BTW, it's easy to get TG's. I usually use former PL's and SPL's that need their POR for Eagle. ;-)

 

It's also a coincidence that I'm sitting in our annual PLC planning session (right now) and this came up. Here's what I do:

 

(1) TG's participate in the NSP's patrol meeting. They are part of the Leadership Corps, right there with the SPL and ASPL's. They are NYLT trained.

 

(2) They have to pass my evaluation that I report to the Scoutmaster - they need to be approved for time spent in the position. Just like at work, I give them a job description and performance standards. I use multiple TG's for one patrol to insure that at least one of them is at a meeting. They have to coordinate amongst each other to make sure it's covered or notify me.

 

(3) They are mentors and teachers for the New Scouts, and they have told me they have received a tremendous amount of satisfaction from helping the new Scouts advance.

 

I have been very impressed with all of my TG's and all of them are now Eagle Scouts. I'd like to think that was my contribution to their journey, in that being a TG was like the Eagle Service Project, just that it was the giveback to their Troop.

 

It's pretty simple. Just make sure that an ASM is there to mentor them. BTW, I thoroughly recommend liberal use of the Instructor position. It does a lot for retention and leadership, and the younger boys look up to that Scout also. They are to be ready to assist Scouts with their one-on-one Scoutcraft skill instruction. It reinforces what may have gone rusty. I like to use our Double H survivors for that.

 

I'm having difficulty digging out my position descriptions, but if you send a personal message, I'll try to get it to you.

 

Good thread. Hope more jump in.

[kb6jra]

Our troop guides are members of the Experienced scout patrol, or older boys that are in the 14-17 year age range, typically Star and above in rank and they use it as a POR. We sometimes need to cycle the TG's out because it's not an easy job to "mentor" an 11 year old boy, let alone 8 of them all at once.

 

Our troop's Experienced Scout Patrol (it's been refered to as the venture patrol, but that's misleading IMO) are all NYLT trained and have been active in our high adventure program for some time. This is typically the group from which the SPL, ASPL, TG's and TI's come from.

 

TG's cook (and eat) with the NSP on campouts. They help them set up their patrol site, but they sleep with their own patrol and will have extra food available for them just in case things don't turn out with the new boys. (the boys idea, not mine)

 

 

[EagleInKY]

I concur with most of the other comments - and I do believe it's up to the troop to figure out what works best.

 

The TG is not part of the NSP, but should spend a lot of time with them - and even eat with them on campouts.

 

Our TG is considered to be part of our senior staff, and typically tents with the SPL & ASPLs. In some situations he has bunked with the NSP, but that's not the norm.

[highcountry]

Before I took over as SM our troop had no contact with the cub packs, no Den Chiefs and no patrol guides. When I took over I had one of our ASM''s so inclined to be a Den Chief coordinator, we now help support 2 area packs. The Most Active Den chiefs become PG''s when the Webelos 2 they mentored cross over. They ahve built a relationship with the new scouts and in most cases their parents are in best position to mentor them and teach them the ropes. They are not necessarily in the NSP. All are at least first class and all are seeded in patrols, not seperate from them. In the past we got very few new Webelos from our lack of connection to the local packs and when Webelos did come into our troop retention was close to zero as there was no one who had bult a relationship with hem, no plan or scouts to help bring them in to welcome them and to help the new scouts and their parents understand the boy scout program vs cubs. It is working well for us.