Frustrated SM seeks help...

[Dangerville]

Hello,

 

I'm new to the forum, and also new to the SM game...I was a Scout not too long ago, I'm only 24. I'm SM-ing the troop that I belonged to, but things have definitely changed. Here's my dilemma:

 

Problem No. 1: I only have 3-4 active boys who attend on a regular basis. Due to athletics, I occasionally only have 1 boy. Other times, some of my less actives show up, and I could have up to 10 boys. So I plan activities for 3-4 boys, and sometimes I either have too much planned, or not enough.

 

Problem No. 2: Obviously, there's not enough active boys for the "patrol method". I tried Troop elections when I first started a year ago, but the boys thought it was a big joke, and elected an SPL who never attends.

 

Problem No. 3: The boys who do attend do not want to plan activities. Any time I try to organize a planning meeting or PLC, they laugh and joke, and nothing gets accomplished. Then I spend all of my spare time between work and sleep, planning and executing activities to keep the program running.

 

Problem No. 4: The Troop Committee and Parents don't really seem to want to get involved. I've repeatedly brought up these problems in Troop Committee Mtg., and they throw out ideas for activities, but then they assume I'll handle the logistics. AND, the parents are more than happy to complain when their boys aren't being entertained.

 

Problem No. 5: The Troop is chartered to the LDS Church, and the Stake only allows fundraising once a year. This fundraiser usually pulls down enough to almost cover Scout Camp, but the rest of the year, we've got no resources. LDS Church rules also say you can't collect dues.

 

Any more experienced Scouters out there who can help me? I'm pulling my hair out trying to run a decent program for these boys. Thanks in advance, Danger.

[CalicoPenn]

At the risk of sounding defeatist, it sounds like this Troop's time is up. I applaud you for stepping up to the plate and taking on the SM role (btw - Welcome to the Forum) but that shouldn't mean you spend your time banging your head against the wall. A Troop with 1 Scout showing up for meetings? No planning by the Boys and no proper support by the Committee?

 

You could try (as I'm sure others will suggest) getting the Committee Members to take training so they know what the game is all about - and it's not about the boys being entertained. You should definitely tell the committee that you will not do any of the planning and logistics alone - if the committee members aren't willing to step up and help shoulder the burden, then don't hold the activity(s).

 

I'm sure others will recommend searching out your Unit Commissioner for some help - and it wouldn't hurt. You might consider speaking with your Stake President or your Bishop and explain to them what is happening in this unit - if the Stake wants this unit to continue, the Stake leadership will certainly make their viewpoint known to the committee & parents. If not, then, sad to say, let the Troop wither on the vine and find another unit that would value you, your skills, and your time.

 

Calico

[GernBlansten]

Our district is made up of about 50% LDS units. At camporees and other district events, I've noticed that the LDS units are all really small (under 10 scouts). Just curious, but are there any LDS units with over 20 active scouts?

[Hunt]

The bottom line is that you don't have enough active boys. Options:

1. Recruit more boys. This will be difficult, because this is an LDS troop. Are all the boys of the right age in the church already members?

2. Get the current boys more active. 10 is still pretty small, but is enough if they would get active. This can only happen, though, if you get help from the parents and the church leaders. Perhaps you need to move your meeting day or time to avoid the conflict with athletics.

3. Merge with another troop. I don't know if this is possible for you, again because this is an LDS troop. Is there another stake near enough for you to join forces?

 

[scoutldr]

I appreciate your frustration, as it is well founded. Let me make some assumptions...if you are the SM, you are a member of the LDS stake. As I learned while on the training staff, your position was "assigned" to you and you don't have the option of resigningm since it is your assigned "mission"? LDS units are a separate breed...if the stake isn't large enough to supply you with a steady supply of 11 year olds, then this troop will never function properly. Does your stake also have a Pack/Team/Crew? What condition are they in?

[Venividi]

Perhaps explain your needs to the church leader(s). Tell them you need people assigned to work the logistics that parents are currently expecting you to do, and ask them if those roles can be assigned by the church. As scouts is LDS' youth program for boys, I am surprised that the church leaders would not be having very high expectations that the church's youth would be actively participating, and communicating that expectation directly to the youth and their parents. Are they aware of the low participation rate, and if so, are they OK with it?

[Beavah]

Yah, Danger. Yeh got a tough situation there.

 

I think you're correct in not worryin' about Patrol Method. Functionally, you're only going to have one "patrol" until you grow a lot. And I think you're best not to worry too much about the "ideal form" of Scoutin' in a lot of other areas quite yet.

 

Don't do elections. Appoint a PL who is a "natural leader" and a regular participant. That's what Baden Powell did to get started. Kids have to see it "work" for a while before they recognize what to look for when electing someone.

 

Don't expect inexperienced 11-13 year olds to do adult-like sit-down "planning." Instead, plan events but offer them specific choices and responsibility in smaller, more controlled ways. Yeh have to build up to bigger things.

 

Don't be afraid to insist on proper behavior from boys. Stop what you're doing if you have to. Give a boy a "time out" or send a boy home if you need to. Be firm enough to earn respect. It's OK to lose an activity in order to teach a lesson. One of da big issues with the poor safety record in LDS units is not settin' high enough behavior expectations in supervising the boys.

 

Check on whether you can borrow a "patrol chief" (kinda like "Den Chief") from the Varsity or Venturing programs at the stake, so you have some experienced older boy support.

 

Don't address a Committee with requests to get involved. Identify a particular task (ASM, Transportation Coordination, etc.) and then identify the person you want to do the task. Buy 'em lunch. You want to recruit help with a pistol, not a shotgun. Up-close, personal, and targeted.

 

Hard to give you advice on finances. Does the stake allow you to bill for camp or trip expenses? In the short term, I would do that if I could, and use fundraising to build up general program money. Otherwise I'd go back to the stake with a budget and a request for funding from their youth ministry budget.

 

There's a guy at the scout council called a "commissioner". Call the council office and ask for yours. Meet with him, and then perhaps with him and your COR for the stake. Lay out all the issues and ask for help and direction.

 

Good luck, and keep us posted, eh?

 

Beavah

 

[RangerT]

scoutleader hit this problem in one, LDS scouting is an animal all unto itself. LDS Scoutmasters can't resign and can't recruit outside their own ward. Your only option is to go to your stake leader and explain your situation. With a troop of 3-4 boys the interest levels will drop and soon they will all disappear. Not to be critical but most of the LDS units I have come across in my time are little better than paper units. Most of the leaders are on a one year appointment and never go to training. If scouting was not a mandated activity by the LDS church it would never survive, as it is it barely hangs on by the skin of its teeth. My suggestion is if the leadership will not help you ask to be reassigned, if they refuse find a non LDS troop your group could do some joint activities with. Best of luck.(This message has been edited by RangerT)

[packsaddle]

Welcome to the forum! Yep, if it was any other unit I'd say stick a fork in it, or time to punt, or something along those lines. I don't know much about LDS units but....

 

"Not to be critical but most of the LDS units I have come across in my time are little better than paper units. Most of the leaders are on a one year appointment and never go to training. If scouting was not a mandated activity by the LDS church it would never survive, as it is it barely hangs on by the skin of its teeth."

 

Wow, RangerT did mention something about not being critical? I'm interested in learning how accurate this is for LDS units in general. Anyone know?

[Dangerville]

Thanks everyone for the replies. Your suggestions are very helpful to me.

 

The real problem with LDS units (from an ex-LDS point of view) is over-management and lack of training. The LDS Church imposes many administrative rules over and above the Scouting codes. Most are not out of any real religious reason, but matters of insurance for the church. Like finances, for instance. My unit is given a "budget" of $500 for the entire year of activities. This budget is to be shared with the Young Men's Organization (the church youth group for boys 12-18), and is usually eaten up in large chunks by their once-a-month activities. Fundraising is very specific, (no car washes, etc.) and we're only allowed 1 fundraiser per year (usually the fall popcorn drive). As I mentioned in my first post, this barely covers the $250.00 per boy for the local LDS-only Scout camp. The parents of most of our boys can't afford that kind of cash, but if the Stake decides it's holding an LDS Camp, it's mandated that you attend, because you won't get approval for any other type of Summer Camp. We got lucky this year and the Stake won't be planning an LDS-only camp, so we've planned a 5-day canoe trip for the summer. Cost: only $50.00 per boy!! (after fundraising)

Another is the religious issue. I understand that the faith is very important for church members, and rightly so, but do they have to be so uptight about it? I have two boys in my troop who are friends of some of my LDS boys, but these two are Catholic, and from what I understand, very much so. Well, when drafting my letter to parents about the upcoming canoe trip, I mentioned that the boys were requested to bring a Bible, as we'd be having a short non-denominational devotional service shoreside each night at camp. I had prepared a short "topic starter" for each night. Basically, it was "how does such and such scripture illustrate such and such a point in the Scout Law?" It was meant to be more to illustrate the correlation between Biblical moral code and Scouting moral code, than to teach any deep religious doctrine. Considering that LDS hold the Bible to be accepted scripture, I didn't think there'd be a problem. Anyway, one of the parents (and my ASM) went to the Bishop all up-in-arms because of the word "non-denominational" in the letter. I was subsequently told that the devotional service had to be strictly "denominational" and that a Priesthood holder had to preside. Now, am I off-base, or is this totally unfair to my two Catholic boys. Am I wrong in not wanting to use the Scouting program as a proselyting tool?

I'd like to thank CalicoPenn and Beavah specifically for some very helpful suggestions. I definitely will suggest that the members of the Troop Committee get trained, and directly after camp, I will appoint a new PL and see if I can't breathe some life into this troop, and have it function the way B-P would have.

 

One clarification: LDS troops ARE allowed to recruit outside of the ward, but it's very difficult because of the stigma the world has about Mormons. Most non-LDS parents don't want their kids to be part of an LDS-sponsored troop. Thanks to everyone, and keep those suggestions coming! I really appreciate every single one! Danger.

[scoutldr]

Just a dumb question...if you are "Ex-LDS" why are you in an LDS unit? Sounds like you have some "irreconcilable differences" and you need to move on and perhaps start a unit that is more "ecumenical". You are right...it's not fair to the non-LDS scouts to inhibit their constitutional right of freedom to express their own religion.

[packsaddle]

Man! I don't see how you survive. This troop would fold in one year if we had those kind of restrictions and I sure wouldn't blame the parents either...DUH! The thought that keeps running through my mind is....this is the denomination that dominates BSA policy and governance? A lot of things are beginning to make sense now.

[ScoutNut]

Your LDS Ward OWNS your BSA Troop. They can make any requirements or changes they wish as long as it does not go against the BSA program.

 

No, requiring your non-LDS Scouts to attend an LDS service is not right. So, do not require them to attend. They can take a walk or sit in their tents or say some prayers on their own.

 

By joining an LDS Troop, you pretty much agree to abide by the LDS way of doing things.

[Dangerville]

Question:

 

Answer: My younger brother is a part of the unit, and I also used to be SPL to some of these boys when I was still a Scout in the Troop. My differences with the church are strictly religious, and so I keep them out of my dealings with the boys. I'd like to see these young men to grow up to be upstanding citizens, regardless of what denomination they belong to. So, I guess you could say I have a sentimental attachment to the Troop.

 

My only concern is for the growth of these young men. I'd like to be a force for good in their lives like my SM was to me. I want them to remember some of the lessons that I teach. My sincere hope is to get the troop back on track, some time soon. And, I'll continue to work within the system, while maybe trying to help LDS units change some of their more ridiculous regulations (I hope). Danger

[Dangerville]

Sorry, for some reason, the question didn't post.

 

The question was, "if you are ex-LDS, why are you in an LDS unit?"

 

Danger